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IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 



EXTRACTS FROM MINUTES OF 
PROCEEDINGS 



AND PAPERS LAID BEFORE THE CONFERENCE 



PRINTED BY ORDER OF PARLIAMENT 




OTTAWA 

PRINTED BY J. de L. TACHE 
PRINTER TO THE KING'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY 

1917 

[No. 42a— 1917.] Price, 15 cents. 






..-,,. 






7 GEORGE V SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a A. 1917 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 



EXTRACTS FROM MINUTES OF 
PROCEEDINGS 



AND PAPERS LAID BEFORE THE CONFERENCE 



PRINTED BY ORDER OF PARLIAMENT 




OTTAWA 

PRINTED BY J. de L. TACHE 
PRINTER TO THE KING'S MOST EXCELLENT MAJESTY 

1917 

[No. 42a-r-19l7.] 



D. of D. 
AUG 25 1917 



C 






; 



o. 






7 GEORGE V SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a A. 1917 



Canada., 
Dominions No. 319. 

Downing Street, 28th May, 1917. 

My Lord Duke, — I have- the honour to transmit to Your Excellency, to be laid 
before your Ministers copies of a Parliamentary Paper (Cd. 8566) containing extracts 
from the Minutes of the Proceedings of the Imperial l War Conference, 1917, and 
Papers laid before the Conference. 

I have the honour to be, 

My Lord Duke, 

Tour Grace's most obedient, humble servant, 

WALTER H. LONG. 

Governor General 

His Excellency , 

The Duke of Devonshire, KG., G.C.M.G., G.C.Y.O., 

etc., etc., etc. 



42a— 1* 



7 GEORGE V SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a A. 1917 



PRELIMINARY NOTE. 

Meetings of the Imperial War Conference took place on various dates between 
21st March and 27th April, 1917, being held, as a rule, on alternate days to those of 
the meetings of the Imperial War Cabinet. 

A great part of the proceedings was of a highly confidential character and entirely 
unsuitable for publication, at any rate during the War. Other parts, though not so 
essentially confidential in their nature, were intermingled with matter which, owing 
to the circumstances of the moment, must for the present be kept confidential. 

The procedure adopted in the present volume has been to publish as many of 
the Resolutions passed by the Conference as possible, but only the discussions and 
papers on subjects which are not of a confidential character. Omissions are indicated 
by asterisks. 

Colonial Office, 

May, 1917. 



7 GEORGE V SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a A. 1917 



I. RESOLUTIONS AGREED TO BY THE CONFERENCE. 



The following Resolutions were unanimously agreed to by the Conference: — 

I. 

* * * ***** 

II. 

Uniformity of Equipment. 

(Third Day; Monday, March 26.) 

That this Conference, recognizing the importance of assimilating as far as possible 
the military stores and equipment of the Imperial forces throughout the Empire, 
recommends that an expert Committee representative of the military authorities of 
the United Kingdom, the Dominions, and India' be appointed as early as possible to 
consider the various patterns in use with a view to selecting standard patterns for 
general adoption as far as the special circumstances of each country admit. 

III. 

Training of Ordnance Personnel. 

(Third Day; Monday, March 26.) 

This Conference is of opinion that it is desirable that the ordnance personnel of 
the military organizations of the Empire should, as far as possible, be trained on the 
same methods and according to the same principles, and that to secure this end 
selected officers of the ordnance service from all parts of the Empire should be attached 
for adequate periods to the Imperial Ordnance Department. 

IV. 
Naval Defence. 

(Fifth Day; Friday, March 30.) 

That the Admiralty be requested to work out immediately after the conclusion 
of the War what they consider the most effective scheme of Naval Defence for the 
Empire for the consideration of the several Governments summoned to this Confer- 
ence, with such recommendations as the Admiralty consider necessary in that respect 
for the Empire's future security. 

V. 
Trade Commissioner Service. 

(Seventh Day ; Wednesday, April 4. See p. 21.) 

That the Imperial War Conference welcomes the proposed increase of the Board 
of Trade service of Trade Commissioners and its extension throughout the British 

7 



8 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Empire in accordance with the recommendations of the Dominions Royal Commission, 
and recommends that the Governments concerned should co-operate so as to make that 
service as useful as possible to the Empire as a whole, especially for the promotion of 
Inter-Imperial Trade. 

VI. 

Patents. 

(Seventh Day; Wednesday, April 4.) 

The Imperial War Conference commends the proposals of the Board of Trade 
in the Memorandum on Patents and Trade Marks to the careful consideration of the 
several constituent Governments of the Empire. 

VII. 

Representation of India at future Imperial Conferences. 

(Eighth Day; Friday, April 13. See p. 28.) 

That the Imperial War Conference desires to place on record its view that the 
Resolution of the Imperial Conference of 20th April, 1907, should be modified to 
permit of India being fully represented at all future Imperial Conferences, and that 
the necessary steps should be taken to secure the assent of the various Governments 
in order that the next Imperial Conference may be summoned and constituted 
accordingly. 

VIII. 

Care of Soldiers' Graves. 

(Eighth Day; Friday, April 13. See p. 28.) 

The Conference, having considered the Minute addressed to the Prime Minister 
on the 15th March, 1917, by His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, concurs in the 
proposals made therein, and humbly prays His Majesty to constitute by Royal Charter 
an Imperial War Graves Commission for the purposes stated by His Royal Highness, 
and along the lines therein set forth as embodied in the draft charter submitted to the 
Conference. The Conference places on record its very deep appreciation of the gen- 
orous action of the Erench Government in alloting in perpetuity the land in that 
country where our men are buried, and urges that similar arrangements should be 
made, if possible, in the terms of peace with all Governments — Ally, Enemy, or 
Neutral — for a similar concession in Gallipoli, Mesopotamia, Africa, and all other 
theatres of war. The Conference desires to record its grateful apppreciation of the 
work already done by the Prince of Wales and his committee in caring for the graves 
of those who have fallen - in the common cause of the Empire, and its satisfaction that 
His Royal Highness has consented to become the President of the permanent Com- 
mission. 

IX. 

Constitution of the Empire. 
(Ninth Day; Monday, April 16. See p. 46. 

The Imperial War Conference are of opinion that the readjustment of the con- 
stitutional relations of the component parts of the Empire is too important and 
intricate a subject to be dealt with during the war, and that it should form the 
subject of a special Imperial Conference to be summoned as soon as possible after 
the cessation of hostilities. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 9 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

They deem it their duty, however, to place on record their view that any such 
readjustment, while thoroughly preserving all existing powers of self-government 
and complete control of domestic affairs, should be based upon a full recognition of 
the Dominions as autonomous nations of an Imperial Commonwealth, and of India 
as an important portion of the same, should recognize the right of the Dominions 
and India to an adequate voice in foreign policy and in foreign relations, and should 
provide effective arrangements for continuous consultation in all important matters 
of common Imperial concern, and for such necessary concerted action, founded on 
consultation, as the several Governments may determine. 

X. 

Naturalization. 

{Tenth Day; Wednesday, April 18. See p. 70.) 

The Conference recognizes the desirability and importance of securing uniformity 
of policy and action throughout the Empire with regard to naturalization, and it is 
resolved that the proposals set forth in the Memorandum submitted by the Home 
Office be commended to the consideration of the respective Governments summoned 
to the Conference. 

XI. 

Earl Grey's Scheme for a Dominion House in Aldwych. 

{Tenth Day; Wednesday, April 18. See p. 88.) . 

The Conference, in expressing to Earl Grey its deep appreciation and warm 
thanks for the great interest that he has taken in the proposal to secure the Aldwych 
site, and to erect thereon a building suitable for the purposes of the Dominions, 
considers that it is not practicable to proceed with the proposal under existing con- 
ditions or in the immediate future. 

XII. 

Care of Soldiers' Graves. 

{Eleventh Day; Monday, April 2S. Seej>. 94.) 

That the Imperial War Graves Commission be requested as soon as possible after 
their appointment and organization to prepare an estimate of the probable cost of 
carrying on the work entrusted to them and to submit the same to the Governments 
of the United Kingdom and Oversea Dominions with their recommendation as to the 
proportion that should be borne by each. 

xin. 

Imperial Mineral Resources Bureau. 
{Eleventh Day; Monday, April 23.) 

That it is desirable to establish in London an Imperial Mineral Resources Bureau, 
upon which should be represented Great Britain, the Dominions, India, and other 
parts of the Empire. 

The Burpau should be charged with the duties of collection of information from 
the appropriate Departments of the Governments concerned and other sources 
regarding the mineral resources and the metal requirements of the Empire, and of 



10 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

advising from time to time what action, if any, may appear desirable to enable such 
resources to be developed and made available to meet the metal requirements of the 
Empire. 

That the Conference recommends that His Majesty's Government should, while 
having due regard to existing institutions, take immediate action for the purpose 
of establishing such a Bureau, and should as soon as possible submit a scheme for the 
consideration of the other Governments summoned to the Conference. 

XIV. 
Production of Naval and Military Material, Munitions, and Supplies. 

(Twelfth Day; Tuesday, April 24.) 

That this Conference, in view of the experience of the present war, calls attention 
to the importance of developing an adequate capacity of production of naval and 
military material, munitions, and supplies in all important parts of the Empire 
(including the countries bordering on the Pacific and Indian Oceans) where such 
facilities do not presently exist and affirms the importance of close co-operation 
between India, the Dominions, and the United Kingdom with this object in view. 

XV. 

Double Income Tax. 

(Thirteenth Day; Wednesday, April 25. See p. 103.) 

The present system of Double Income Taxation within the Empire calls for 
review in relation — 

(i) to firms in the United Kingdom doing business with the Overseas Dominions, 

India, and the Colonies; 
(ii) to provide individuals resident in the United Kingdom who have capital 
invested elsewhere in the Empire, or who depend upon remittances from 
elsewhere within the Empire; and 
(iii) to its influence on the investment of capital in the United Kingdom, the 
Dominions and India, and to the effect of any change on the position 
of British capital invested abroad. 

The Conference, therefore, urges that this matter should be taken in hand imme- 
diately after the conclusion of the War, and that an amendment of the law should 
be made which will remedy the present unsatisfactory position. • 

XVI. 
Development and Control of Natural Resources. 

(Thirteenth Day; Wednesday, April 25. See p. 116.) 

Having regard to the experience obtained in the present war, this Conference 
records its opinion that the safety of the Empire and the necessary development of its 
component parts, require prompt and attentive consideration, as well as concerted 
action, with regard to the following matters: — 

(1) The production of an adequate food supply and arrangements for its trans- 
portation when and where required, under any conditions that may 
reasonably be anticipated. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 ■ 11 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

(2) The control of natural resources available within the Empire, especially those 

that are of an essential character for necessary national purposes, 
whether in peace or in war. 

(3) The economical utilization of such natural resources through processes of 

manufacture carried on within the Empire. 

The Conference commends to the consideration of the Governments summoned 
thereto the enactment of such legislation as may assist this purpose. 

XVII. 

Control of Imports after the War from present Enemy Countries. 

(Thirteenth Day; Wednesday, April 25. See p. 121.) 

•The Imperial War Conference consider it desirable, with a view to prevent dump- 
ing or any other mode of unfair competition from present enemy countries during 
the transition period after the War, that the several Governments of the Empire, 
while reserving to themselves freedom of action in any particular respect, take power 
to control the importation of goods originating in such countries into the Empire for 
a period of twelve months after the War. 

XVIII. 



XIX. 



XX. 



XXI. 
Imperial Preference. 

(Fourteenth Day; Thursday, April 26. See p. 123.) 

The time has arrived when all possible encouragement should be given to the 
development of Imperial resources, and especially to making the Empire independent 
of other countries in respect of food supplies, raw materials, and essential industries. 
With these objects in view this Conference expresses itself in favour of: — 

(1) The principle that each part of the Empire, having due regard to the interests 

of our Allies, shall give specially favourable treatment and facilities to the 
produce and manufactures of other parts of the Empire. 

(2) Arrangements by which intending emigrants from the United Kingdom may 

be induced to settle in countries under the British flag. 

XXII. 

Reciprocity of Treatment between India and the Self-governing Dominions. 

(Fifteenth Day; Friday, April 27. See p. 126.) 

That the Imperial War Conference, having examined the Memorandum on the 
position of Indians in the Self-governing Dominions presented by the Indian repre- 



12 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

sentatives to the Conference, accepts the principle of reciprocity of treatment between 
India and the Dominions and recommends the Memorandum to the favourable con- 
sideration of the Governments concerned. 

XXIII. 

Address to His Majesty the King. 

(Fifteenth Day; Friday, April 27. See p. 130.) 

That His Majesty the King be asked to receive the Members of the Imperial War 
Conference now in Session, who desire to present a humble address to His Majesty. 

XXIV. 

Temptations of Oversea Soldiers. 

(Fifteenth Day; Friday, April 27.) 

That the attention of the authorities concerned be called to the temptations to 
which our soldiers when on leave are subjected, and that such authorities be empowered 
by legislation or otherwise (1) to protect our men by having the streets, the neigh- 
bourhood of camps, and other places of public resort, kept clear, so far as practicable, 
of women of the prostitute class, and (2) to take any other steps that may be necessary 
to remedy the serious evil that exists. 

XXV. 

Concluding Resolution. 

(Fifteenth Day; Friday, April 27. See p. 132.) 

The Members of" the Conference representing India and the Oversea Dominions 
desire before they separate to convey to the Secretary of State for the Colonies their 
earnest and sincere appreciation of his labours in preparing for, and presiding over, the 
Conference. 

They desire also to put on record their deep sense of gratitude for the many 
courtesies which they have received from the Prime Minister and the other members 
of His Majesty's Government, as well as for the generous hospitality which has been 
extended to them by the Government and people of the United Kingdom. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 13 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 



II. EXTRACTS FROM MINUTES AND PROCEEDINGS. 



FIRST DAY. 

Wednesday, 21st March, 1917. 

The Imperial War Conference met at the Colonial Office at 11.30 a.m. 

Present : 

The Right Honourable Walter H. Long, M.P., Secretary of State for 
the Colonies (Chairman of the Conference). 

Canada. 

The Right Honourable Sir R. Borden, G.C.M.G., Prime Minister. 

The Honourable Sir G. H. Perley, K.C.M.G., Minister of Overseas Military 
Forces. 

The Honourable R. Rogers, Minister of Public Works. 

The Honourable J". D. Hazen, Minister of Marine and Fisheries and Minister of 
the Naval Service. 

New Zealand. 

The Right Hon. W. F. Massey, Prime Minister. 

The Right Honourable Sir Joseph Ward, Bart., K.C.M.G, Minister of Finance. 

South Africa. 

Lieutenant-General the Right Honourable J. C. Smuts, Minister of Defence. 

Newfoundland. 

The Right Honourable Sir E. P. Morris, K.C.M.G., Prime Minister. 

India. 

The Right Honourable A. Chamberlain, M.P>, Secretary of State for India. 

Sir J. S. Meston, K.C.S.I., Lieutenant-Governor of the United Provinces. 

Colonel His Highness the Maharaja of Bikaner, G.C.S.I., G.1C.I.E., A.D.C. 

Sir S. P. Sinha, Member Designate of the Executive Council of the Governor of 
Bengal. 

Mr. H. C. M. Lambert, C.B., Secretary to the Conference. 



14 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 . 

- 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 
THERE WERE ALSO PRESENT: 

Sir G. V. Fiddes, G.C.M.G., "'C.B., Permanent Under Secretary of State for the 
Colonies. 

Mr. A. D. Steel-Maitland, M.P., Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for the 
Colonies. 

Lientenant-Colonel W. Dally Jones., Assastant Secretary to the War Cabinet; 
and 

Private Secretaries. 

Opening Address and Replies. 

Mr. Long observed that it was his privilege as Secretary of State for the Colonies 
to offer a very warm and cordial welcome to the representatives of the Dominions and 
India. He greatly regretted, as all did, the absence of Australia; a very serious blow 
to their work. It was due entirely to difficulties which had compelled Mr. Hughes to 
have a general election, which, of course, prevented him from coming. He desired, 
specially, to welcome the representatives of India, who, by their presence at this 
Imperial Conference, gave it a character which it had never possessed before, and it 
was, he thought, a happy augury that the Secretary of State ' for India should be a 
son of the great Imperial statesman who so well and truly laid the foundations of the 
Imperial Conference. 

Yesterday had been held the first meeting of the first Imperial Cabinet which has 
ever assembled in the Empire. To-day they met at what was the corollary of the 
Imperial Cabinet, namely the Imperial Conference. They were engaged in a War the 
greatest and the most terrible in history, and their object both in the Cabinet and in 
the Conference was to deal with the immediate war problems, with those which will 
arise on the conclusion of peace, and with any other questions which it may seem 
desirable to discuss or decide, as being of Imperial interest, without delay. 

The War had entailed great sacrifices, and laid upon us a vast common burden. 
These had been borne cheerfully, first because we realize that sacrifice is essential if 
we are successfully to champion our great cause, and secondly because our peoples 
realize that only out of the community of sacrifice and suffering can come the great 
lessons which will teach us how to bring about that re-birth of Empire which must 
be the result of the great struggle. 

He then referred to the subjects to be discussed in the conference. An advance 
programme had already been circulated comprising subjects of which notice had 
already been given, or which it was thought probable here that there would be a desire 
to discuss. No doubt other subjects would be added, and it was for the Conference to 
decide wbat questions should be discussed, and in what order. Some problems appeared 
too great for decision when we were at war, and when it was impossible for the Prime 
Minister and many of his colleagues to attend regularly at the Conference, but' he 
hoped that, even if decision was impossible, the Conference would not consider itself 
debarred from very full discussion. They had a great opportunity, one which might 
not soon recur. He was satisfied that Germany was making most complete preparations 
for competition when the War is over. In the field of battle we had been found 
unprepared, but he hoped that we should not again be caught unprepared for those 
peaceful conflicts in which we should certainly be engaged so soon as the War is over, 
and in which we ought to be prepared to do something more than hold our own. And 
therefore he repeated that discussion round the table must be helpful. 

The Conference, he suggested, should be governed by the general rules which 
governed the last Imperial Conference. He should ask the Conference to decide as 
to the attendance of the Press and as to the record to be kept of its proceedings. He 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 15 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

thought it probable that the greater part of the work would refer to matters of such 
a confidential character in connection with the War that it will be impossible to make 
the proceedings public, or even to refer to the actual subjects. But he suggested that 
the rules as to voting by States should be maintained; that all members of the Con- 
ference should be permitted to speak in the discussions; that the rule as to the Press 
should be maintained ; and that the Conference should have in attendance a shorthand 
writer to take a complete record, and he was prepared, if the Conference approved, to 
supervise the issue to the Press of a short summary of proceedings on each day of 
meeting. 

In conclusion he repeated his cordial welcome, and expressed his great pride at 
presiding over an Imperial Conference which comprised representatives of all the 
Dominions — save Australia — and the Indian Empire, and he hoped that the proceed- 
ings would be harmoniously conducted, as he was sure they would, and be of real use 
to the Empire at large. 

Sir R. Borden, replying,, thanked Mr. Long for his welcome, and concurred in 
his expression of regret with regard to the absence of Australian representatives, 
and of gratification at the presence of representatives from India. Referring to Mr. 
Long's 1 remarks about the sacrifices made by the Empire in the War, he spoke of 
Canada's determination to carry on the struggle. He said that he agreed generally 
in Mr. Long's proposals with regard to procedure, but he presumed a Committee would 
be appointed to prepare the agenda. 

Mr. Massey, after thanking Mr. Long for his welcome, similarly expressed regret 
at the absence of Australian, and gratification at the presence of Indian representa- 
tives. ' He proceeded to refer to post-war trade as a question of pressing importance, 
and to the emigration of the population of the United Kingdom to other parts of the 
world. He hoped, he said, that inducements would be offered to keep them under the 
Flag. He also referred to the question of Double Income Tax, and hoped that it 
would come before the Conference. 

General Smuts, after thanking Mr. Long for his welcome, said that he was sorry 
that no representatives from Australia were able to attend, and, in expressing his 
pleasure at seeing the Indian representatives present, observed that, in his opinion, 
( nly good could come from the inclusion of India in this Conference. Matters out- 
side the War should not, he said, be settled at this Conference; for instance, the 
question of constitution of the Empire and economic policy in the future. Though 
these questions might be discussed, no decision should be come to, though this reserva- 
tion was not necessary as regards merely transitional measures. This was General 
Botha's view, and we should, he insisted, turn our attention to matters which would 
help us to end the War. 

Sir E. Morris, after thanking Mr. Long, agreed with General Smuts that many 
questions cannot now be settled, but suggested that the Conference should be placed 
in touch with industrial bodies, such as Chambers of Commerce, in order to study 
the development of the products of the Empire. He referred in this connection to 
the great amount of asbestos which went to Germany from "Canada before the War, 
and of iron ore from Newfoundland. 

Mr. A. Chamberlain thanked Mr. Long and other speakers for the cordial wel- 
come they had extended to the representatives of India, observing that for the first 
time the Government of India enjoyed a full representation, and he hoped to see a 
precedent established for future co-operation. ISTo better step could, he said, have been 
taken than to call India to these councils. After referring to the progress made by 
India in recent years, he suggested that questions concerning India's relations with 



16 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

the Empire and affecting vitally her relations with the Dominions and the Empire 
generally, should come up for discussion, though not necessarily for any decision. 
Discussion should, he said, enable them to understand each other better. India had 
some claim to greater recognition than she has had — she had bled herself white at the 
be* inning of the War to supply the deficiencies of the Empire in troops, arms, and 
guns. 

India, he observed, was interested in the questions of Double Income Tax and 
Commercial Development. He also suggested that it might be useful to send Com- 
mercial Commissioners from the Dominions to India. He asked that the position of 
citizens of India in the Empire should be discussed. He was, he said, aware of the 
difficulties, but India would not be unreasonable. Only good could come of the Domin- 
ions speaking freely on their side and hearing India put her case. 

Sir Joseph Ward said he regarded the Conference as next in importance 
from the point of view of the future of the Empire to the immediate work of 
the proper conduct of the War. While agreeing that General Botha's view should 
be fully respected, he was of opinion, with all deference to General Smuts, that 
it should not prevent the discussion now of matters affecting the Empire as a 
whole after the War. If, he said, we begin twelve months after the War to 
consider these questions we shall begin twelve months too late. New Zealand 
looked forward to getting a lead from the Conference, e.g., he hoped to see 
proposals to circumvent the enemy's insidious attacks in various directions, and 
among them those concerning vital trade interests of the Empire. If these 
questions are not to be discussed now, when, he asked, is the next Conference 
to be? He asked if the naval defence of the Empire could be considered, even if 
it was not possible to give effect to any suggestions or schemes. In this connection 
he referred to our dependency on the help of a friendly nation for sea protection in 
the Pacific. If that country's battleships were at any moment required for her own 
defence, we would, so far as the Pacific is concerned, be almost unrepresented by 
necessary fighting ships. He also referred to the advantage of having Indian repre- 
sentation at the Conference, and most warmly welcomed the change. India had done 
great work for the whole Empire during the War, and" her representation at the Con- 
ference had been well and worthily won. It augured well for the future of the Empire's 
widespread interests. 

He held that there should be a discussion concerning the value of the Pacific to 
the Empire as a whole, and of the great interests concerned; we should, he said, look 
to the future, and not confine discussion merely to the territorial question. 

He asked whether subventions to British mail steamers and cargo steamers would 
be discussed. In his view New Zealand ought to be brought within twenty-one days 
of London. It could be done. British shipping should be fostered, and it was neces- 
sary to consider the bearing on the future of the Pacific of the development that had 
taken place by the opening of the Panama route. 

It would also be necessary to pass a Resolution on the Naturalization of Aliens 
after the War. Action in all parts of the Empire should be uniform, and there should 
be restrictions against people from enemy countries. Referring to the absence of 
Australian representation, he said that the want of unanimity might vitiate the 
results of the Conference. He asked whether resolutions passed at the Conference 
were to be sent out by cable to the Commonwealth — this, he thought, should be done 
j — and if the Commonwealth were to be asked whether they agreed or not. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 17 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Order of Business. 

Mr. Long then suggested that the procedure of the Conference should be deter- 
mined and the hours of meeting, and he asked how the agenda was to be settled.- The 
Conference should also decide their policy with regard to the Press. One suggestion 
was that the Press should be excluded, but shorthand writers should attend to take 
notes. 

Mr. Chamberlain said that he thought that nothing should be given to the Press 
beyond a statement that the Conference had met. 

Sir E. Borden agreed, more especially in view of the proposal to cable to the 
Commonwealth. 

It was decided that— 

(1) Each Government should have one vote, but that every representative 
should have the right to speak. 

(2) The Chairman should issue to the Press reports of the meetings of the 
Conference, but should give no details of the business done. 

(3) The times of meeting should be Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday,* at 
11 a.m. 

(4) A Sub-Committee consisting of Sir E. Borden, Mr. Massey, General Smuts, 
and Sir J. Meston, with the Chairman, should determine the order of 
business. 

With regard to the question of communicating the proceedings of the Confer- 
ence to Australia, Mr. Long said that he was willing to cable confidentially to the 
Governor General of the Commonwealth that a particular subject would be under 
consideration, and to ask whether the Commonwealth wished to make any communi- 
cation. A decision on this was def erred. f 

Adjourned to Saturday, March 24. 



SECOND DAY. 
Saturday, 24th March, 1917. 

The Imperial War Conference met at the Colonial Office at 11 a.m. 

present : 

The Eight Honourable Walter H. Long., M.P., Secretary of State for the 
Colonies (Chairman of the Conference). 

The Eight Honourable the Earl of Derby, K.G., G.O.V.O.,, Secretary 

of State for War. 

* Note. — This date was, at a subsequent meeting, altered to Friday. 

f Note. — After further discussion at the Conference, Mr. Long sent the following telegram 
to the Governor-G-eneral of the Commonwealth : — - 

" 30th March. I am arranging to telegraph to you, for the information of your 
Prime Minister, Resolutions passed by Imperial War Conference. Conference, while 
desiring to keep your Prime Minister informed of the progress of the work, is of ths 
opinion that all the Resolutions should be kept confidential until the date decided on 
for common publication." 

42a— 2 



18 * IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Canada. 

The Eight Honourable Sir E. Borden, G.C.M.G., Prime Minister. 

The Honourable Sir G. H. Perley, KC.M.G., Minister of Overseas Military 

Forces. 
The Honourable E. Eogers, Minister of Public "Works. 
The Honourable J. D. Hazen, Minister of Marine and Fisheries and Minister of 

the Naval Service. 

New Zealand. 

The Eight Honourable W. P. Massey, Prime Minister. 

The Eight Honourable Sir Joseph Ward, Bart., KC.M.G, Minister of Finance. 

South Africa. 

Lieutenant-General the Eight Honourable J. C. Smuts, Minister of Defence. 

Newfoundland. 

The Eight Honourable Sir E. P. Morris, KC.M.G., Prime Minister. 

India. 

The Eight Honourable A. Chamberlain, M.P., Secretary of State for India. 
Sir J. S. Meston, K.C.S.I., Lieutenant-Governor of the United Provinces. 
Colonel His Highness the Maharaja of Bikaner, G.C.S.I., G.C.I.E., A.D.C. 
Sir S. P. Sinha, Member Designate of the Executive Council of the Governor of 
Bengal. 

Mr. H. C. M. Lambert, C.B., Secretary to the Conference. 

Mr. E. J. Harding, Junior Assistant Secretary to the Conference. 



THERE WERE ALSO PRESENT: 

Sir G. Y. Feddes, G.C.M.G., C.B., Permanent Under Secretary of State for the 

Colonies. 
Mr. A. D. Steel-Maitland, M.P., Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for 

the Colonies. 
Sir E. H. Brade, K.C.B., Secretary of the War Office. 
Major-General Sir John Steevens, K.C.B., KC.M.G., Director of Equipment 

and Ordnance Stores. 
Major-General Sir W. H. Birkbeck, K.C.B., C.M.G., Director of Eemounts. 
Brigadier-General E. H. Seymour, C.B., Deputy Director of Equipment and 

Ordnance Stores. 
* Lieutenant-Colonel W. Dally Jones, Assistant Secretary to the War Cabinet; 

and 
Private Secretaries. 

Loyal Resolution. 

Chairman : At the first meeting of the last Conference the proceedings were com- 
menced by passing the following resolution : " The Imperial Conference at their first 
meeting as their first act desire to present their humble duty to Your Majesty, and 
to assure you of! the devoted loyalty of all portions of Your Majesty's Empire here 
represented." I do not know whether it would be the pleasure of the Conference to 
pass a similar resolution , to-day. I do not think you could improve upon the terms 
of it. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 19 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Sir Eobert Borden: I think it very appropriate indeed to send such a message 
and we could not improve upon it. I shall be very happy indeed to propose it. 

Mr. Massey: If necessary, I will second. 

Chairman : May I take it then that the Imperial War Conference passes that reso- 
lution, which, in that x case, I will submit to His Majesty. (Agreed.) 

Agenda. 

Chairman: Then there is a report laid before the Conference of the Sub-Com- 
mittee appointed at oiir preliminary meeting to draw up agenda. Is it your pleasure 
to adopt it, or does anybody desire to call attention to anything in it? 

Mr. Massey: I understand this is not final — it may be altered. 

Chairman: It may be altered; it really only suggests the business for the first 
three days, and must then, of course, be subject to" revision if anything occurs. Is it 
your pleasure to adopt it or does any one desire to make any comment? We may take 
it that it is adopted then. Are you prepared to approve it? 

Sir Eobert Borden: On the understanding that any additional subjects may be 
suggested later on. It is provisional only. 

Chairman : It is only provisional in order that we may know how to make proper 
arrangements a day or two in advance. 



SEVENTH DAY. 

Wednesday, 4th April, 1917. 

The Imperial War Conference met at the Colonial Office at 11 a.m. 

present : 

The Eight Honourable Walter H. Long, M.P., Secretary of State for the Colonies 

(Chairman of the Conference). 

The Eight Honourable Sir Albert H. Stanley, M.P., President of) the Board of Trade. 

Canada. 

The Eight Honourable Sir E. Borden, G.C.M.G., Prime Minister. 

The Honourable Sir G. H. Perley, K.C.M.G., Minister of Overseas Military 

Forces. 
The Honourable E. Sogers, Minister of Public Works. 

The Honourable J. D. Hazen, Minister of Marine and' Fisheries and Minister of 
the Naval Service. 

New Zealand. 

The Eight Honourable W. F. Massey, Prime Minister. 

The Eight Honourable Sir Joseph Ward, Bart., K.C.M.G., Minister of Finance. 

South Africa. 

Lieutenant-General the Eight Honourable J. C. Smuts, Minister of Defence. 

Newfoundland. 

The Eight Honourable Sir E. P. Morris, K.C.M.G., Prime Minister. 
42a— 2J 



20 , IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

India. 

The Right Honourable A. Chamberlain, Secretary of State for India. 
Sir J. S. Meston, K.C.S.I., Lieutenant-Governor of the United Provinces. 
Colonel His Highness the Maharaja of Bikaner, G.C.S.I., G.C.I.E., A.D.C. 
Sir S. P. Sinha, Member designate of the Executive Council of the Governor of 
Bangal. 

Mr. H. C. M. Lambert, C.B., Secretary to the Conference. - 
Mr. E. J. Harding, Junior Assisant Secretary to the Conference. 
i 

THERE WERE ALSO PRESENT: 

Sir G. V. Fiddes, G.C.M.G., C.B., Under Secretary of State for the Colonies.. 

Mr. A. D. Steel-Maitland, M.P., Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for the 
Colonies. 

Sir H. Llewellyn Smith, K.C.B., Permanent Secretary, Board of Trade. 

The Bight Honourable Sir Maurice de Bunsen, G.C.M.G., G.C.V.O., C.B., Acting 
Assistant Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. 

Mr. H. Fountain, C.B., C.M.G., Assistant Secretary, Commercial Department, Board 
of Trade. 

Mr. W. Temple Franks, C.B., Comptroller-General of Patents, Bpard of Trade. 

Sir W. H. Clark, K.C.S.I., C.M.G., Comptroller-General of the Commercial Intelli- 
gence Department, Board of Trade. 

Mr. Percy Ashley, Board of Trade. 

Lieutenant-Colonel W. Dally Jones, Assistant Secretary to the War Cabinet; 
and 

Private Secretaries. 

Reply to Loyal Resolution. 

Chairman: Gentlemen, I have a message from the King: — 

" The King thanks the Imperial War Conference for their assurance of 
the devoted loyalty of all parts of His Empire expressed through the represen- 
tatives assembled at the Conference, and is glad to note that India is represented 
for the first time at the Council board. His Majesty is well aware of the feel- 
ings of affection and loyalty felt by His subjects in all parts of the Dominions 
to His Throne and Person, and He has received this resolution with particular 
pleasure as being the first act of the Imperial War Conference. The King is 
keenly interested in their deliberations, which He trusts may lead to the closer 
knitting together of all parts of His Empire in their united efforts to bring the 
present war to a victorious conclusion." 

Mr. Massey : Will that be recorded, Mr. Long ? 
Chairman: Yes. 



Representation of India at Future Imperial Conferences. 

Sir Joseph Ward : May I suggest that it will become necessary before we conclude 
to rescind the Resolution of the Imperial Conference itself bearing upon the admission 
of the Indian representatives, because to-day we have the ' Indian representatives 
here, and they are here because this Conference is called, not under the name of the 
Imperial Conference, but under another name so as to admit of the representatives of 
India attending. Now, if some of the important subjects which affect India are to 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 ■ 21 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

come up at an ordinary Imperial Conference, the present is a Conference which should 
clear the road so as to enable those representatives to be summoned as members of the 
Imperial Conference, or otherwise an ordinary Imperial Conference is faced with the 
difficulty that there is on record now a Resolution bearing upon that matter which 
would prevent India being summoned to an Imperial Conference. 

Mr. Massey: It seems to me on that very point that if any change is made it 
must be made by the Imperial Conference itself. This is not the Imperial Conference 
in the ordinary sense of the word, as Sir Joseph "Ward pointed out, but this is an 
Imperial War Conference and I do not think it has a right to interfere with the pro- 
ceedings of the other Conference. 

Sir Joseph Ward: That is so, but could there not be an understanding arrived 
at with a view to this position, otherwise the next Imperial Conference would be faced 
with an initial difficulty that they cannot overcome. There ought to be an expression 
of opinion at the first meeting of the Imperial Conference that that Resolution to 
which I have referred should be rescinded so that the Indian representatives could 
be invited to the Imperial Conference. That would be necessary, would it not? 

Chairman : Yes, I think it would be necessary. I take it it would not be possible 
for us to take absolute governing action, but we could obviously pass a resolution 
indicating that in our view it is desirable that that resolution should be rescinded 
and' that formal steps should be taken for the admission of India. 

Sir Joseph Ward: Quite so. 

General Smuts : If the constituent Governments were approached there would be 
no difficulty about it. 

Chairman: None whatever. 
. Mr. Chamberlain : If I may say so, any expression of opinion from this Con- 
ference would carry great weight with the constituent Governments; and I may add 
that it would be extremely gratifying for India if, having seen her representatives, 
this Conference was willing to make a recommendation of that kind and place it on 
record. There is 1 no doubt Indian sentiment has greatly appreciated the admission of 
India to this Conference, and it would bje profoundly disappointing if this Conference 
broke up without any indication at all that India might expect to be summoned to 
later Imperial Conferences. 

Mr. Massey: There is no doubt about the willingness of the Conference — none 
whatever. 

Chairman : Perhaps we might have a Resolution drawn and bring it up at a 
subsequent meeting. 

Sir Joseph Ward : Yes, I think that would be an excellent arrangement. 

Chairman : Very well, I will do so. 



Trade Commissioner Service. 

Sir Albert Stanley: You will observe from the Memorandum* that we call to 
the attention of the Conference the suggestions made by Sir Joseph Ward at the 
Conference which met in 1907, at which he suggested that there was lacking any official 
commercial representatives of the United Kingdom in the different self-governing 
Dominions. Acting upon that suggestion steps were taken to appoint Trade Com- 
missioners and they have been established in the self-governing Dominions. The 
scheme was started in a small way, but the result of establishing those Commissioners 
has clearly justified Sir Joseph Ward's suggestion. There is no doubt that the antici- 
pation of substantial improvement of the trade of the United Kingdom and of the 



22 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Dominions has been amply justified, and we have recently taken steps to add to these 
facilities the appointment of Trade Commissioners in other parts of the Empire, so 
that when that scheme is completed practically the whole of the Empire will be covered 
by a system of Trade Commissioners. Now those Trade Commissioners are established 
primarily with the object of securing for the benefit of the traders in this country 
information with respect to the trade within the Oversea Dominions. When I say 
that "primarily" their functions are limited as I have described them, I mean that if 
any information is asked for by traders elsewhere in the Empire it is given by them. 
We raise for discussion at this Conference the suggestion that perhaps these Com- 
missioners might be used in a much broader sense. It is, I think, a matter worthy of 
discussion whether they could not take up much broader duties than those I have 
described so that their functions would not be limited as between the United Kingdom 
and the Dominions where they happened to be, but that their scope would practically 
cover the whole of the Empire. 

Mr. Massey : What do you mean by broader duties ? 

Sir Albert Stanley: I mean as between the Dominions themselves as well as 
between that particular part in which they happen to be and the United Kingdom itself. 

Mr. Massey: Take a British trade representative in New Zealand: do you suggest 
that he should act for the New Zealand Government as between New Zealand and 
Australia, putting that by way of illustration ? 

Sir Albert Stanley: Not necessarily. 

Mr. Massey : Then what is intended ? 

Sir Albert Stanley: Perhaps I may read this memorandum and then it will 
raise discussion on certain definite points; that will be the better way. 

H The following are the proposed instructions to the Commissioners : — 

(1) To reply to commercial inquiries which may be addressed to them by traders 

or Government departments in the Dominion represented, and to suggest 
suitable local agents for manufacturers or producers of that Dominion. 

(2) To notify the Dominion Government of changes in the Customs tariffs or 

other regulations affecting its trade. 

(3) To report any openings for trade, or contracts open to tender, which might 

interest producers or manufacturers in the Dominion represented. 

(4) To maintain an exhibition of the produce and manufactures of the Dominion 

(if this is desired). 

(5) To circulate and distribute in the districts where they are stationed official 

literature relating to the trade, agriculture, and manufactures of the 
Dominion represented; and 

(6) Generally to watch over the trade interests of the Dominion in the country 

in question. 

The Dominion represented should supply the Trade Commissioners with the infor- 
mation (Blue books, agricultural reports, trade newspapers, lists of exporters, direc- 
tories, etc.), necessary to enable them to carry out their functions." 

Mr. Rogers: Does that proposal just mean that there is. to be a representative 
for each Oversea Dominion, or do you propose to widen the scope? 

Sir Robert Borden :• There are a certain number in Canada and in Australia, and 
it is proposed, as I understand it, to increase their number and also to widen their 
scope. 

Mr. Massey : I think the Dominions have representatives in Europe. Using New 
Zealand as an illustration, we have our representatives in Australia, and I am afraid 
that this suggestion may have the effect of overlapping their duties and causing a 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 23 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

certain amount of friction unless we withdraw our men, but I do not think that will 
do at all, because nobody can represent a Dominion like a man who has been accustomed 
to its business and who has grown up in it. 

Sir Robert Borden : As far as we are concerned the situation is very much the 
same. We have a Trade Commissioner in Australia. I am not sure that we have one 
in New Zealand. 

Mr. Massey : You have a representative. 

Sir Robert Borden : I know that we have in South Africa and elsewhere through- 
out the world commercial agents called Trade Commissioners. 

Mr. Hazen : We have them in different parts of the United Kingdom too. 

Sir Robert Borden : Yes, we have Trade Commissioners in the United Kingdom 
as well. As far as the latter part of the Memorandum is concerned, of course each 
Dominion would be perfectly willing to supply the British Trade Commissioners with 
all information of every kind which might be useful to them there is no question about 
that. 

Mr. Massey: Certainly. 

Sir Robert Borden : It does seem to me that the other suggestions perhaps 
might require a little thought and consideration before one could undertake to say 
that they could be effectively acted upon. I have only just seen the proposal to-day, 
so I would not venture to express an opinion upon it. The idea of each Dominion 
would be to co-operate with those Trade Commissioners in every possible way and to 
utilize their services wherever that utilization would not involve confusion or friction 
between these Commissioners and those already appointed by and acting for- the 
Dominions in various parts of the world. 

Sir Albert Stanley: We do not propose to interfere with them in any way 
whatever. 

Sir H. Llewellyn Smith: Wherever a Dominion has its representatives it will 
naturally use them, but there may be some parts of the Empire where a particular 
Dominion does not happen to be represented, and all we 'suggest is that His Majesty's 
Trade Commissioners in those cases should be at the disposal of the Dominions who do 
not happen to have their own representatives. I would not put it higher than that. 

Sir Robert Borden : I think the offer in that sense would be very much appre- 
ciated. We desire to co-ordinate effort as far as possible for the common good. 

Sir H. Llewellyn Smith : That is so. 

Sir Joseph Ward : I would like to say that I am in full sympathy with the pro- 
posal of the Board of Trade upon this matter, because in my opinion it is absolutely 
essential, if we are to meet the changed conditions which will exist after this War, that 
there should be wide facilities to the producers and the merchants in all parts of the 
Empire to have the full benefit of a recognised official constitution in the shape of 
commercial representatives. 

The United States of America have brought this class of work up to a science. 
They are ahead, in my opinion, of any country in the world, and if we want after this 
War to be in a position to protect our Trade interests, it seems to me (judging by the 
excellent work that has followed the appointment of the existing Trade Commissioners') 
that we should have a systematised chain of trade representatives right over the 
Empire, as this proposal practically indicates, if we are to get the full benefit of the 
trade which we shall have to fight for when hostilities are concluded. We cannot 
discuss any possible course which may be taken after a conference with the War 
Cabinet upon these important trade matters which have been referred to them in the 
meantime, and it is impossible to tell what the necessities of some of the Allied 
countries and some of the Neutral countries will be in order to make up for the 



24 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

devastating processes which have gone on during this War. But it is self-evident that 
they will require to look for extended markets as well as to various parts of the British 
Empire. There is no doubt that two of our Friendly Allies, the United States of 
America and Japan, are leaving nothing undone at present to plant themselves in 
countries where prior to the War this country had a stronger footing than they. I am 
referring particularly to Australia and New Zealand, where they have been intensely 
active; since this War started, and rightly so, in my opinion, in making an inroad 
where Germany before had a very large hold in connection with certain trade. 

British Trade Commissioners will not, in my opinion, conflict with the local trade 
representatives of the various Dominions. I do -not think in our country _ we would 
under any conditions withdraw our representatives because there was a British trade 
representative in the same place. The work of our representatives rs in some respects 
of a very different nature. Amongst other things our representatives advise people 
from different parts of the world who land in Australia, for instance, who have not 
made up their minds where to locate themselves, and give them information for the 
purpose of settlement. They also help our people with regard to trade inquiries of a 
local nature. From the point of view of protecting the traders and helping them to get 
fresh business there is nothing more reliable than an official trade representative from 
this country appointed by and under the management of the Board of Trade. I look 
upon it, from the point of view of helping the future trade of the Empire, as being 
of very great importance. I do not believe there will be any clashing between the 
Board of Trade representatives and our respective representatives whom we now have 
in different parts. I am in full sympathy with the proposal of the Board of Trade, but 
the details are a matter for consideration for those primarily responsible for submitting 
them, and so long as they do not clash with us— and I do not think they will — they 
commend themselves to me. 

General Smuts: I agree with what has fallen from Sir Joseph Ward, and I 
rather deprecate the chilly' reception which has been given to this proposal, which I 
think is an eminently useful proposal, and one which is in the interest of the Dominions. 
I see from the Memorandum which has been put before us that it is intended by the 
Imperial Government, by the Board of Trade, to extend the number of Trade Commis- 
sioners over the various parts of the Empire, and if their functions could be extended 
now as proposed, so that their services would be available where necessary and where 
required to the Dominion Governments and to traders, I think it would be a very 
• good thing. I do not think there need be any overlapping with the duties of the 
similar representatives of each Dominion in Europe. Of course, where there are such 
representatives it would not be necessary for the Dominions concerned to avail them- 
selves of the services of the Imperial Trade Commissioners. 

Sir Joseph Ward: Quite so. 

General Smuts: But in many cases there will not be representatives of a Dom- 
inion Government, and I think in such cases a great deal of expense would be saved 
to the Dominions and a great deal of co-ordinating work would be done by them. 

I heartily welcome this proposal, and, if necessary, I would be prepared to move 
a Resolution to that effect. 

Sir Albert Stanley : I wish to make it quite clear that we have not in contem- 
plation impinging upon or interfering in any way with any of the local representa- 
tives. We feel that as time goes on the information which these Trade Commissioners 
will have at their disposal must grow and become of very great importance indeed, 
and it occurred to us that this information might be used to greater advantage than 
it has been up to the present time, and therefore, if it were the wish of the Oversea 
Dominions to utilize the services of those Trade Commissioners more than they have 
done at the present time, we shall be happy to co-operate with them so that they 
could secure those services. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 25 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Sir James Meston: As far as India is concerned, India would very gladly wel- 
come these proposals, and gladly co-operate in any necessary way in order to carry 
them out. The great difficulty with us hitherto has been to get into touch, apart from 
the textile industries, with our consumers outside India, and we have had to start 
small local emporia, and things of that sort, which have not worked successfully. So 
what is now proposed would be of the greatest possible assistance to us. It is possible, 
as time goes on, that two Trade Commissioners would not be enough, but we would 
be very glad to have them as a beginning. 

Sir Robert Borden : As far as Canada is concerned I did not intend to give this 
proposal the chilly reception to which General Smuts alluded. I stated that it would 
be the policy of the Government to co-operate in the fullest way with these Commis- 
sioners, but that where' we had Commissioners of our own we should have to be care- 
ful that no friction arose with respect to the functions of those Commissioners on the 
one hand and our Commissioners on the other hand. I think all will recognize that 
as an important consideration. Subject to that we should be glad, as I said before, to 
co-operate to the fullest possible extent with the 'British Government in the work of 
these Commissioners, and to assist them in every possible way. 

Mr. Massey : As far as I am concerned I would just like to say that there can be 
no possible objection to increasing the number of these Commissioners, absolutely 
none' I would go further than that and say that I do not think the British Govern- 
ment and the British people and British traders and commercial men have done any- 
thing like enough in the past, or anything like what they will be compelled to do when 
the War comes to" an end. I feel very strongly (and I have been watching what has 
been going on) that British business men will have to fight harder against countries 
from which they have not had a great deal of competition in the past than ever they 
have had to fight against Germany. I am speaking now of industrial matters. I 
think time will show that the opinion I have expressed is correct. We are all anxious 
to assist, and what has occurred to me is this. I want to come back for a moment to 
the business of the Conference. We took the whole of the last sitting discussing com- 
mercial matters, and we come along this morning and find it is not convenient to the 
representatives of the Imperial Government to go on with that subject. Very well; 
we do not very much object to that; it will probably go to the War Cabinet and be 
discussed there at considerable length, and, if you like, it will come back to be dis- 
cussd here. Now here is a proposal to which there is no possible objection, and, upon 
my word, seeing the enormous amount of work which we have in front of us on such 
matters as Preference, the Future Representation of the Dominions in Imperial mat- 
ters, and Migration from the United Kingdom, and all that sort of thing, I really do 
not think that we should occupy a very great deal of time in discussing this, seeing 
that no possible objection can be raised to it. 

General Smuts : May I move a Resolution to bring the matter to a point? 
Chairman : Yes. This Resolution is proposed by General Smuts : " That the 
Imperial War Conference welcomes the proposed increase of the Board of Trade ser- 
vice of Trade Commissioners and its extension throughout the British Empire, in 
accordance with the recommendation of the Dominions Royal Commission, and recom- 
mends that the Governments concerned should co-operate so as to make that service 
as useful as possible to the Empire as a whole, especially for the promotion of Inter- 
Imperial Trade." . , 
Sir Edward Morris : I should like to second that Motion and to say that I entirely 
concur in the proposal of the Board of Trade in relation to the establishment of addi- 
tional Trade Commissioners ; but I would like to point out to the President of the 
Board of Trade that it would be desirable to have one of those permanently residing 
in Newfoundland. In the past we have had one Trade Commissioner between the two 
countries — Canada and Newfoundland — and we have had an annual visit from him, 



26 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

but more than that is, I think, desirable now. If you are going to give three Trade 
Commissioners to Canada, one might be allotted to Newfoundland and have a per- 
manent residence there. 

Sir Albert Stanley : I should certainly be the last one to place a restriction upon 
our attempts to increase the scope of our trade activities. We shall certainly give 
very careful consideration to your suggestion. 

Mr. Hazen 1 : I hope this may lead to a very considerable development of British 
trade in Canada. Some years ago in conversation with Sir William Van Home, who 
was for years the President of the Canadian Pacific Eailway Company, he pointed out 
to me in very vigorous language that the British merchants and British manufacturers 
had not organized trade with Canada in the way it should be organized, and that there 
was room for a tremendous development of trade which would be very much to the 
advantage of the British manufacturer and the British merchant if trade was organ- 
ized with Canada along proper lines. He pointed out that the people in the United 
States were doing a lot of trade with Canada which could very well be done by, the 
people of the British Isles if they used modern and progressive methods in the way 
of getting hold of that trade. He said to me that he believed that he could undertake 
himself, with his wide experience in many activities, to organize British trade in a 
way which would be enormously to the advantage of the British Isles and at the same 
time be very much to the advantage of Canada. I hope that these Trade Commis- 
sioners will take up questions of that sort very actively and very energetically, and I 
have no doubt what is true of Canada as to British trade would also be true of other 
Oversea Dominions. 

Chairman: Is it your pleasure that the Resolution proposed by General Smuts 
and seconded by Sir Edward Morris be approved? (Agreed.) 



EIGHTH DAY. 
Friday, 13th April, 1917. 

The Imperial War Conference met at the Colonial Office at 11 a.m. 

present: 

The Eight Honourable Walter H. Long, M.P., Secretary of State for the 
Colonies (Chairman of the Conference). 

The Bight Honourable The Earl op Derby, K.G., G.C.V.O., Secretary 

of State for War. 

The Right Honourable Sir Alfred L. Mond, First Commissioner of Works. 

Canada. 

The Right Honourable Sir R. Borden, G-.CM.G., Prime Minister. 

The Honourable Sir G. H. Perley, K.C.M.G., Minister of Overseas Military 

Forces. 
The Honourable R. Rogers, Minister of Public Works. 
The Honourable J. D. Hazen, Minister of Marine and Fisheries and Minister of 

the Naval Service. 

Neiv Zealand. 

The Right Honourable W. F. Massey, Prime Minister. 

The Right Honourable Sir Joseph Ward, Bart., K.C.M.G., Minister of Finance. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 27 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

South Africa. 

Lieutenant-General the Right Honourable J. C. Smuts, Minister of Defence. 

Newfoundland. 

The Right Honourable Sir E. P. Morris, K.O.M.G., Prime Minister. 

India. 

The Right Honourable A. Chamberlain, Secretary of State for India. 
Sir J. S. Meston, K.C.S.I., Lieutenant-Governor of the United Provinces. 
Sir S. P. Sinha, Member Designate of the Executive Council of the Governor of 
Bengal. 

Mr. H. C. M. Lambert, C.B., Secretary to the Conference. 

Mr. E. J. LIarding, Junior Assistant Secretary to the Conference. 



THERE WERE ALSO PRESENT: 

Sir G. V. Eiddes, G.C.M.G., C.B., Under Secretary of State for the Colonies. 
Mr. A. D. Steel-Maitland, M.P., Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for 

the Colonies. 
Sir Lionel Earle, K.C.B., C.M.G., Secretary, Office of Works. 
Mr. J. S. Risley, C.B., Legal Adviser, Colonial Office. 
Brigadier-General F. A. G. Ware, C.M.G., Director of Graves Registration and 

Enquiries, War Office. 
Captain J. R. Brooke, R.G.A., War Office. 
Lieutenant-Colonel W. Dally Jones, Assistant Secretary to the War Cabinet, 

and 
Private Secretaries. 

Invitation from the French Government. 

Chairman : The first communication I have to make to the Conference is that 
I have received from the French Ambassador in London the following invitation 
addressed to the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. He says that he has a com- 
mand "from Monsieur Ribot to say that the French Government will be delighted to 
.receive a visit from the Representatives of the Great British Dominions who are 
actually in London at the present time. Monsieur Ribot asks the British Govern- 
ment to convey this information to the Members of the Conference and to inform the 
French Government of the date, etc., on which it would be possible for them to visit 
Paris, supposing they decide to do so. I do not know whether the Members of the 
Conference would be prepared to instruct me to answer that communication to-day or 
whether they would prefer to consider it. 

Mr. Massey: It depends upon the time at which we finish up*our business. 

Sir Robert Borden : I think we must consider it. 

Chairman: Then perhaps you would like to have a copy of this invitation sent 
to you. 

Sir Robert Borden : Yes ; thank you.* 

* Note.- — The following reply was subsequently sent to the invitation of the French Gov- 
ernment : — ■ 

Your Excellency, Foreign Office, April 24th, 1917. 

• "With reference to Your Excellency's Note of the 3rd instant, in which you were so 

good as to extend to the oversea representatives of the Imperial War Conference the 
cordial invitation of your Government to visit France, I have the honour to inform Your 
Excellency that the representatives have requested me to beg Your Excellency to convey 
to the French Government their warm thanks for this generous invitation, which they 
would, if circumstances had permitted, have been delighted to accept. The representa- 
tives feel, however, that the pressure on their time is such that it is impossible for 
them, as a body, to pay a visit to France. 



28 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Representation of India at future Imperial Conferences. 

Chairman : Then there is a Resolution carrying out the decision of the Confer- 
ence as regards the inclusion of India. At the last meeting the Conference decided 
to pass a Resolution with reference to India securing permanent representation at the 
Conference, and I have had the following Resolution drawn : 

" That the Imperial War Conference desires to place on record its view 
that the Resolution of the Imperial Conference of 20th April, 1907, should be 
modified to permit of India being fully represented at all future Imperial 
Conferences, and that the necessary steps should be taken to secure the assent 
of the various Governments in order that the next Imperial Conference may 
be summoned and constituted accordingly." 

I think Sir Robert Borden will move that. 

Sir Robert Borden : Yes, I have great pleasure in moving it. 

Mr. Massey: And I in seconding it. 

Chairman: This Resolution is proposed by the Prime Minister of Canada, 
Sir Robert Borden, and seconded by the Prime Minister of New Zealand, Mr. Massey. 
Is it your pleasure that that Resolution be adopted? (Agreed.) 

Mr. Chamberlain: May I, on behalf of India and its representatives, say one 
word of very grateful thanks to the other members of the Conference for what they 
have just done. Sir Satyendra Sinha wishes me to add that it will give great satis- 
faction in India. 

Chairman: I also am very glad indeed. 



Care of Soldiers' Graves. 

Chairman: The question for our discussion now is the proposals of the 
"Prince of Wales's Committee for the Care of Soldiers' Graves," in regard to 
which a minute of the Prince of Wales has been circulated,* and there is going 
round now a Draft Charter,! which has been prepared to give effect to that. There 
is a Resolution, which, I understand, Sir Robert Borden is prepared to move later on, 
but I also understand that the Conference wishes to say something about the general 
question. Lord Derby, the Secretary of State for War, is here, although it is not 
simply a War Office question. 

Lord Derby : As representing the War Office I do not know that I have really 
anything to say except just this, that this Royal Commission which is to be formed 
is not going to be advisory, but is going to have executive power to see that the 
graves of our soldiers are kept for all time in proper order. The agencies they would 
use for such a purpose would be left entirely to that Royal Commission, and there 

If, however, any individual member of the Imperial Conference should find it pos- 
sible to visit France later, I shall not fail- to inform Your Excellency in time for the 
necessary arrangements to be concerted. 

I have the honour to be, with the hi ghest consideration, 

Your Excellency's most obedient, humble Servant, 
His Excellency Monsieur Cambon, R- Graham. 

&c, &c, &c. 

* See Minute printed on pp. 141-142. 
f See Draft Charter on pp. 146-156. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 29 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

would be no question of saying to it-: "You are to use this or that body to do it." 
All the Dominions will be represented, the Crown Colonies will be represented, and 
India also will be represented. There are certain people in this country who will be 
represented. It will be a body which, as I say, will have executive powers and will 
use its own agencies for seeing that these graves are properly looked after, and I 
hope by this means we shall get not only the work well done, but get continuity, 
without which I am perfectly certain some graves, at all events, would probably fall 
into neglect. What we want to avoid is the spasmodic efforts that are made from 
time to time to look after the graves of soldiers in past wars. We want to ensure 
that the graves of those who have fallen in this War are looked after by those who 
are living at the same time, and handed on to those who come after them. That is 
my view, and I hope it will be adopted by this Imperial War Conference. 

Sir Robert Borden : I do not know whether we have all had an opportunity 
of looking over the proposed Charter. 

Mr. Massey: We have not. 

Sir George Perley: Has this Charter been passed by the Committee? 

Lord Derby: No. 

Sir George Perley: It will be submitted to the Prince of Wales's Committee, 
I suppose, before it is finally agreed to. 

Lord Derby: The Prince of Wales has by his minute handed the matter over 
to this Conference for decision. If this Imperial War Conference accept this scheme 
—and this Charter has been most carefully drawn with a view to giving effect to the 
wishes which have been expressed — then there is no question of its being referred 
to anybody else. It will be accepted ; of course it will have to go through the necessary 
forms and get the Royal Assent, and so on, but I do not think you need have any 
fear that there will be any alteration made. 

Sir George Perley: I quite agree in the general principle, and no doubt it 
will be all right, but I notice one thing which should be altered. If there were not 
a High Commissioner here, for instance, you. could not have anybody to take his 
place under this ruling. The Government of Canada could not appoint anybody else. 

General Ware: I would like to refer you to subsection (3) of clause 5 of Part 
IV. of the Draft Charter where, I think, that point is met. 

Sir George Perley: The High Commissioner may appoint a representative if he 
were not present, but the Government of Canada could not appoint some one to take 
his place if there happened to be no High Commissioner. It is a small matter in a 
way, but there may be little things of that kind in which the Charter might be 
improved. I have not had an opportunity of reading it. 

Mr. Massey : I think the Charter may be improved after the Imperial War Con- 
ference has expressed an opinion upon the general question. I do not think there 
is any difficulty about it. The point raised by Sir George Perley is a very important 
one and, as a matter of fact, I have made a note of it upon the original memorandum. 
There are other points. I do not think this quite fills the bill. May I say at once 
that I agree with the general principle, and I am sure I am expressing the 
opinion of all the other Members of the Conference when I say that 
wp all appreciate what is being done to care for the soldiers' graves not 
only in this country but overseas in Prance and in Belgium. I will say a word about 
Gallipoli presently. There is that point about the High Commissioners, and I think 
instead of the High Commissioners the representation of the different Dominions 
should be left with the Government of the Dominion itself. It might be, for instance, 
that the High Commissioner representing a Dominion would have his hands suffici- 
ently full without taking up work like this, or a Dominion might have a more suitable 
representative, a man with plenty of time and leisure to attend to a thing like this, 



30 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 19.17 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

and with whom it would be a labour of love. The Dominion concerned might make 
arrangements with the High Commissioner so that the other man would act. I can 
imagine a case like that. I am not blaming any High Commissioner, but I am sug- 
gesting what may possibly happen in the future because we are making arrangements 
not only for the present but for a great many years to come. I know perfectly well 
that this can be altered as time goes on. 

^ Lord Derby: Might I suggest that in order to save time of the Conference, 
which you yourself said was so very valuable, the best thing would be if you will accept 
it as a general principle, that everybody should take this draft away and should send 
in to General Ware any criticisms or alteration they wish to make. If it is then found 
possible to incorporate them, they could be incorporated and, on the other hand, if it 
was not found possible to incorporate them the matter should be discussed between, 
if you like, myself and the individual Member of the Conference who wishes some- 
thing altered, in order to see if we can arrive at some understanding and then put it 
in its final form for acceptance by this Conference. 

Mr. Massey : There is another point I want to raise now, and it is this : In 
the Minute from the Prince of Wales which has been submitted to us there is this 
proposal referring to the Commission 

Lord Derby : We have had certain discussions on what we have known of 
the objections, and I think you will find the Draft Charter now does differ a little 
from the actual Minute, and I think you will find, probably, it meets your case. 

Mr. Massey : There is the difficulty in which we are placed. We get this placed 
in our hands 

Lord Derby: My proposal is that you should take the Draft Charter away with 
you and study it carefully, and that you should tell me what objections, if any, you 
have that have not been met in the Charter, and then we should endeavour to incor- 
porate them in a fresh Draft Charter. I think that would save time. 

Mr. Massey : Very well. 

Sir Robert Borden : The Eesolution I was asked to move is this : — . 

"The Conference, having considered the Minute addressed to the Prime 
v Minister on the 15th March, 1917, by his Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, 
concur in the proposals made therein, and humbly pray His Majesty to 
constitute by Royal Charter an Imperial War Graves Commission for the pur- 
poses, and on the lines, stated by His Royal Highness. The Conference desire 
to record their grateful appreciation of the work already done by the Prince 
of Wales and his Committee in caring for the graves of those who have fallen 
in the common cause of the Empire, and their satisfaction that His Royal 
Highness has consented to become the President of the Permanent Commis- 
sion." 

So far as the concluding paragraph is concerned, there would not be a moment's 
hesitation in concurring most heartily in that expression of appreciation. However, 
as Lord Derby has said, the Draft Charter which is put before us does differ in some 
respects, which might be regarded as more or less material, from the Minute which 
has led to the Resolution. So possibly it might be desirable to modify a little the 
words of the Resolution in order to make it clear that we are dealing with the terms 
proposed in the Charter subject to such modifications as might be approved by the 
Conference. 

Mr. Chamberlain: I hope, Mr. Long, we may accept Lord Derby's suggestion. 
This Charter has only been put in our hands this morning and' it is quite impossible 
for any of us to compare it as we sit here with the Memorandum, or to see exactly 
what has been done. If we could have the advantage of the offer which Lord Derby 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 31 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

has made, namely, that we should communicate to him any suggestions we wish to 
make and that then the document as settled as the result of those private negotiations 
should come for formal approval to the Conference, I really think we should save time 
and do our business more satisfactorily. 

Sir Robert Borden: If we wish to make progress would it not meet the view of 
the Conference if we modified the Resolution in this way: 

" Humbly pray His Majesty to constitute by Royal Charter an Imperial 
War Craves Commission for the purposes and on the lines set forth in the 
Draft Charter now submitted to this Conference " ? 

Sir Joseph "Ward: And then the Draft Charter would come up afterwards. 

Sir Robert Borden : It merely says " for the purposes and on the lines " ; it does 
not bind us. 

Sir Edward Morris: I think that would meet the case, because it would enable 
us to make any alterations in it. 

Sir Robert Borden: The difficulty is that the proposed Charter does not follow 
precisely the lines of the Memorandum. 

General Smuts: I have just been glancing through it and I think the Draft 
Charter is an improvement on the Memorandum. 

Sir Robert Borden: I think it is an improvement. 

General Smuts : I think if the Resolution is passed like that, it is simply gener- 
ally " on the lines of " the Memorandum submitted, and I would strongly favour 
that. If we pass this Resolution in this general form and then make to General Ware 
our suggestions as to any small amendments, most of my difficulties are removed by 
the terms of the Charter. 

Mr. Massey : I want to say a word about this. I understand the Motion is now 
before the meeting, and it is a matter upon which I feel somewhat strongly. I gave 
notice of motion at a previous meeting with regard to Gallipoli from a sense of duty 
to the people whom I represent. The question of Gallipoli was raised in New Zealand 
last session, it was not discussed at length but a request was made that I should, if 
I got the opportunity, bring it before the Imperial authorities. At that time there 
was no suggestion of an Imperial War Conference or anything of the sort, but I 
promised, and, as a matter of fact, I should have done it without any promise being 
made and should have endeavoured to have the matter put right if it was possible to 
do so. As I say, I gave notice of motion at a previous meeting, though I have not got 
a copy of the notice here, which was to this effect — and I will read an amendment I 
propose to move — that an endeavour should be made, when peace terms were being 
arranged, that the ground in which our soldiers are buried in Gallipoli should pass 
under the control of a British organization. That was the line I took. I am sorry 
that, so far as I have been able to see, there has been no attempt made in this Draft 
Charter, or in the Motion now before the Conference, to meet me on that very 
important point, because it is really a matter of intense importance to many people 
in the Overseas Dominions, and to many people in Britain and in India, that some- 
thing should be done in this way. So far as the Charter is concerned, it is quite 
impossible for any one to grasp the real meaning of every point raised in it when it 
is only brought before us in this way, and on that account I am quite willing it should 
stand over. 

Lord Derby : I think we can simplify and shorten matters if you accept my sug- 
gestion, because you will see yourself in the Charter the purpose of the Commission 
is : " To acquire and hold land for the purpose of cemeteries in any territory in which 
any officers or men of our military or naval forces raised in any part of our Empire 



32 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

who shall have fallen in the present War may be buried." And " To acquire by gift, 
purchase, or otherwise, and hold and dispose of personal or movable property of every 
kind in the United Kingdom or elsewhere." That is as far as we can go. 

Mr. Massey : No, I stand by myself, but I want special reference made to Galli- 
poli if it is possible. I do think Gallipoli is of sufficient importance for the War 
Office and for the Members of this Conference specially to consider it. 

Sir Edward Morris: There could be no objection to mentioning all these places 
including Gallipoli. 

Mr. Massey: I want to move this amendment: 

" That this Conference is strongly of opinion that when peace terms are 
being arranged an earnest endeavour shall be made to have that part of the 
Gallipoli peninsula where lie the remains of so many British and Oversea 
Dominion soldiers placed under the control of the above-mentioned Commission." 

I move that as an amendment, and I hope Sir Eobert Borden will accept it. 

Sir Edward Morris : I would suggest to Mr. Massey that if we were to name the 
various theatres of war the words read out by Lord Derby would meet the case — that 
is, to secure land in Great Britain, Gallipoli, Mesopotamia and the various theatres 
of war or elsewhere. That would meet the whole case. That is what the words of 
the Charter are intended to give the Commission power to do — to secure this land in 
every threatre of war. Your case, Mr. Massey, will be met by naming these various 
theatres and then the words " or elsewhere " would cover it. 

General Ware: I should like to say that it was the intention when this Charter 
was drafted to include Gallipoli in the recital where it says those " buried in foreign 
countries." It will be quite possible in that way to emphasize the matter and to draw 
attention to the Gallipoli graves, if that is the desire of the Conference. 

General Smuts: I think it is invidious. Why should a distinction be drawn 
between men who rest in Gallipoli, coming from one part of the Empire, and others 
who fought just as bravely, and who lie in another part of the world? 

Sir Robert Borden : It would seem to me that if the Charter does not make that 
perfectly clear — I must say I thought it did — reference should be made to all the 
theatres of war in other countries. I think there is no objection to doing that. 

Mr. Hazen : It would be a very difficult thing to refer to every particular theatre 
of war. I think it would be better to leave it general as it is here, which covers any- 
thing. 

Mr. Rogers: We cannot distinguish one or two. 

Mr. Massey: I am afraid, Mr. Long, the Members of the Conference do not see 
the point. I did not think it necessary to emphasize it, but Gallipoli is in an enemy 
country in possession of the enemy. The other places are not in the same position. I 
am glad to see that Erance has done its duty already; Erance has handed over the 
ground to the British Government where the British soldiers have been buried, and 
Belgium proposes to do exactly the same thing, and no doubt it will be done; but 
Gallipoli is in quite a different position, and there is very serious difficulty there, 
which I am afraid will not be got over, and that is why I raise it, and I feel it all the 
more strongly because no representatives of Australia are here to-day, so that Sir 
Joseph Ward and I are really speaking on their behalf as well as our own. 

Lord Derby: Mesopotamia would equally come under that. 

Sir Robert Borden: Or Palestine. 

General Smuts: And Salonika. 
. Lord Derby : Yes, Salonika. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 33 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Sir Joseph Ward: If this matter is regarded from the New Zealand standpoint, 
then I think if the Conference can agree to what Mr. Massey has proposed, it would be 
a very gracious matter on their part to do it. I agree with Lord Derby that we should 
accept this Charter, after we have had the opportunity of considering it, as the basis 
upon which the whole control of the graves of our soldiers should rest. That is per- 
fectly right, and it would save a good deal of time if we defer the consideration of) it 
until we have had an opportunity of going through the details of the Charter. Sir 
Robert Borden has moved a resolution which leaves out that point to which Mr. 
Massey has referred, and to which I was going to call attention, namely, the case of 
Gallipoli, Mesopotamia, and other places. 

Sir Robert Borden: There are also Palestine and Salonika. 

Lord Derby : And Southwest Africa. 

Sir Joseph "Wakd : We had it not only brought up before the New Zealand Parlia- 
ment, but before the Cabinet of New Zealand, and there is a very strong desire there 
(the New Zealanders took their full share in the fighting at Gallipoli), and a strong 
sentimental feeling — and a sentimental feeling is a very powerful one — that care 
should be taken oi3 the graves of the men dear to people who are thousands of miles 
away from Gallipoli. It seems to me that Sir Robert Borden could, without any diffi- 
culty, have what is proposed included in his Motion. 

Lord Derby : I agree with Mr. Massey that, from a sentimental point of view, it 
is just as well to mention these places if you can mention them. I do not say that you 
cannot, but what I do think is that you must be very careful in a Charter like this to 
deal with all graves, over the world almost, where our men have been killed or have 
died, so that by mentioning certain localities you do not exclude others from the 
powers of the Charter under which this Commission is to work. Therefore, I do not 
myself see any harm in doing so, if it is wished, to put in Gallipoli, Mesopotamia, 
and all the other places, as long as you have the qualifying words at the end " and 
elsewhere." 

Mr. Massey: "And other places." What I propose is that Gallipoli should be 
mentioned, " and other places where lie the remains," and so on. 

Sir Robert Borden: With all deference to the considerations that have been 
advanced, and with every possible appreciation of what has been done in Gallipoli or 
anywhere else, I see no reason why Gallipoli should be mentioned more distinctively 
than other theatres of war where men have fought with equal courage and equal dis- 
tinction. It is said that we must consider enemy countries. I am not impressed with 
the importance ofi that, because whether it is an enemy country or any other foreign 
country suitable arrangements can only be made by negotiation with foreign Govern- 
ments. We have no more right over the land in France than we have over the land in 
Gallipoli except by arrangement with the French Government. 

Mr. Massey: Prance is our Ally. 

Sir Robert Borden: I know Prance is our Ally, but we have no more right over 
her territory than over Gallipoli. We must make arrangements with the French 
Government, and it is equally important to us as to any other Dominion to know that 
;the graves of the men who have fallen are to be properly cared for, and we expect that 
they will be cared for under this Commission. 

Mr. Massey : I look upon it in this way. I happen to know as a matter of fact — 
and this not second-hand information — that the graves in Gallipoli are being neglected. 
I say that positively. You cannot expect anything else. 

Lord Derby : We cannot get there to do anything. 

Mr. Massey: As I say, you cannot expect anything else. It is enemy territory, 
and I say it is simply sacrilege to allow the state of things existing in Gallipoli at the 
42a— 3 



34 • IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

present moment to go on. It will be sacrilege to allow the graves of our men to be 
(trodden over by human beings and by animals, as they certainly will be in years to 
come, and soon every mark will be obliterated. I have seen a photograph of the 
place, and it made me sad and sorry to see it and to think of what was going to take 
place within a very few years. 

Sir Robert Borden: I agree with Mr. Massey that any such condition should be 
prevented by every possible means in our power, whether it is in the terms of peace or 
otherwise. 

Mr. Massey: Yes. I am simply doing my duty by moving the amendment, and 
I propose to take a vote upon it if it is necessary — I hope it will not be — because I 
know the country which Sir Joseph Ward and_ I represent will feel it very keenly if. 
something is not done with special reference to Gallipoli. I admit that other places 
should be considered in the same way, but there are not the same difficulties in the 
other places, as exist at Gallipoli. 

Mr. Hazen: Does your Resolution carry the matter any further than the pro- 
vision here under "Purposes and Powers of the Commission," where the first sub- 
section in clause 1 of 'Part "V says: "To acquire and hold land for the purpose of 
♦cemeteries in any territory in which any officers or men of our military or naval forces 
raised in any part of our Empire who shall have fallen in the present War may be 
buried"? Would not one of the first acts of this Commission, which is constituted 
by Royal Charter, be to enter into negotiations for the purpose of acquiring the land 
in Gallipoli in which the Australians and men of other Dominions have been buried? 

Lord Derby: I am not sure it is not a question which would be taken in as one 
of the peace terms. 

Mr. Massey: That is exactly what I want.. 

Mr. Hazen: It seems to me that would be one of the first functions of the 
Commission. 

Mr. Massey: I do not think Members of the Conference have grasped my point. 

Sir Robert Borden: Yes, we have. 

Mr. Massey: I will read my amendment again because evidently Members of the 
Conference did not know that I was referring to the peace terms : — 

" That this Conference is strongly of opinion that when peace terms are 
being arranged an earnest endeavour shall be made to have that part of the 
Gallipol-i peninsula and other places where lie the remains of many British and 
Oversea Dominions soldiers placed under the control of such Commission." 

Lord Derby: The Charter gives the Commission that power. 

General Ware: I would point out that the Draft Charter has this definitely in 
view in the second paragraph of the recital where it is said : " Negotiations are now 
proceeding or will hereafter be instituted, on our behalf with the Governments of 
other foreign States for similar grants of land for the graves of officers and men of 
our said forces who have been, or may be, buried in the territory of such States." As 
fkr as the Charter goes it is covered. 

Mr. Massey : I am not speaking of the Charter. I am not objecting to the Charter. 
We can amend that, if necessary. The point I raise is that this shall come up when 
peace terms are arranged. That is the point. 

Lord Derby: At the Imperial War Cabinet we shall discuss peace terms, and 
would it not be the right time then to put it in and not to do it when we are discussing 
the Charter, that amongst the peace terms should be the compulsory handing over of 
land in which our men are buried? 

Mr. Massey : I cannot understand the objection to this. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 35 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Sir Robert Borden : There is no objection, Mr. Massey, except this, that we have 
men fighting in Mesopotamia and in Salonika and in other theatres of war all over the 
world, and I think that the object which you have in view would be attained by making 
a general reference to all the theatres of war, so that the danger which you appre- 
hend would be guarded against in the peace terms or otherwise. I have no objection 
to that. 

Mr. Massey: I may say at once I am not satisfied with what is proposed. I see 
that it is suggested in the Minute that the Commission should consist of not more 
than fourteen members and those fourteen will be mostly officials. I do not see why 
the Commission should be limited to fourteen. We know that there are thousands of 
philanthropic men not only in Britain but elsewhere who would be delighted to be 
members of such a Commission. 

Lord Derby : The limit has been removed. 

Mr. Massey : Has it ? 

Lord Derby: Yes, in the Draft Charter. May I go back to my original sugges- 
tion which is that you should see the Charter and let me know what alterations you 
want to recommend? 

Mr. Massey: But we have the Motion which has been moved by Sir Robert 
Borden before the Conference. There is another point arising out of it. I am glad 
that by the Charter the limit has been removed. The Commission is to consist of 
certain Ministers; the Secretary of State for War and the Secretary of State for the 
Colonies, and so on, are to be members of the Commission, or their duly accredited 
representatives. Who are to be their representatives? I would have no objection to 
raise if the,se gentlemen themselves were to remain on the Commission, because I 
know that they would do their duty, but their places may be taken by officials in their 
departments, who are naturally interested in their work rather than the particular 
subject we are discussing now, and we cannot expect them to give that attention to it 
which this subject deserves. However, I am doing what I strongly feel is my duty 
under the circumstances, and I am going to ask the Conference to decide. 

Lord Derby: I hope Mr. Massey will not think I am opposing in the least what 
he says. I recognize to the full that we must do everything we possibly can, and really 
I am dealing with it with a view to simplify it, and I say we will put in everything we 
possibly can to make it perfectly clear. 

General Smuts: Would it satisfy Mr. Massey more if all the various theatres 
were set out? 

Mr. Massey : I have said " Gallipoli and other places." 

Sir Edward Morris: Have you any objection to naming the other places? 

Mr. Massey: Not a bit. 

Sir Edward Morris: Then I will second it. 

General Smuts : One does not .want to have to do the invidious thing of voting 
against it. 

Lord Derby : Certainly mention all the theatres of war so long as you add " and 
elsewhere " at the end in order to make it clear that it refers to wherever men may be 
buried. 

Sir Robert Borden: I object to mentioning one theatre of war and grouping 
the others in a general term. I will not support a Resolution of that kind. If theatres 
of war are mentioned I insist on all the theatres being mentioned whether they are 
enemy countries or allied countries. I am perfectly prepared to support that, but I 
will not support a .Resolution at this Conference selecting by name one particular 
theatre and leaving* the others under a general designation " and other places." I 
will not support that. 

42a— 3J 



36 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 



7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 



Mr. Massey : Then it is Sir Eobert Borden's duty to move for the insertion of the 
names of the other places, and I will accept that. 

Sir Robert Borden : I have proposed the Resolution which was handed to me by 
the, President of the Conference, and I am willing to modify it on the lines I have 
mentioned, if the Conference is of opinion that it should be done, naming all the 
theatres of war. 

Chairman: If you name all the theatres of war, does not that cover the ground? 

Mr. Massey: I have said that I am prepared to accept that. 

Sir Edward Morris: I will second the Motion in that form. 

Sir Robert Borden : Perhaps we can have it passed in that form and then agree 
amongst ourselves. 

General Smuts : I think that is best, Mr. Massey, and it meets your point. 

Mr. Massey: I am prepared to accept that. 

Lord Derby: Then will each Member of the Imperial War Conference send to 
me, or to General Ware, at the War Office, the names of the theatres of war and how 
they wish them described? 

Mr. Chamberlain: I am very sorry to wear even the appearance of obstruction, 
but surely it is not possible to deal with Mr. Massey's Resolution in that way. He 
proposes that when peace terms are being arranged an earnest endeavour should be 
made to place all positions where British graves lie, whether in friendly or enemy ter- 
ritory, under control of an Imperial organization. Surely we cannot make a stipula- 
tion like that with France, in connection with peace terms? 

Mr. Massey : That has been done already. 

Lord Derby: Yes, that is done. 

Mr. Chamberlain: Are you going to name France in this Resolution? 

Mr. Massey: JSTo, France has arranged. 

Mr. Hazen: France is one of the theatres of war. 

Lord Derby : France has agreed by law. 

Mr. Hazen : But even if it has agreed is it to be named ? 

Chairman : The real point seems to be in what way you are to make it clear that 
it is the desire of the Conference that every effort should be made to secure the same 
protection for graves in enemy territory that is already secured in allied territory ? 

Lord Derby: That is the whole thing. 

Chairman: It is suggested that in order to make that clear you should designate 
all the enemy territories — all the theatres of war. 

Lord Derby : I may mention incidently that Salonika is neutral territory. 

Sir Robert Borden: The territories outside the British Empire are all very much 
in the same position. We make arrangements with a Foreign Government. 

General Smuts : I do not like to vote against Gallipoli, and although I think it is 
the better thing I would prefer to mention all these theatres, and I am sure General 
Ware will consent to that. 

General Ware : There is no difficulty at all in introducing that into the Charter 
if we have an instruction from the Conference. 

Mr. Massey: I do not want to alter the Charter. As far as I am concerned I 
stand by the Resolution. I do not care two pins for the Charter. The Resolution is 
what I am dealing with. 

Sir Robert Borden : The Conference ought to express appreciation of the arrange- 
ments which have already been made by France. 

Mr. Massey : That should be done. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 37 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Sir Robert Borden : And it should further proceed to express its conviction that 
adequate arrangements should be made with regard to graves in territory which will 
after the conclusion of the War remain in enemy occupation and then, if you like, 
go on to name those theatres. 

Chairman : There are one or two general questions which have been raised in the 
discussion, for instance, as to the appointment of representatives of the Imperial 
Government and of the Dominions, and whether that should be as it is in the Charter, 
or whether the general view of the Conference is that the Governments should have 
power to appoint their representatives. If we could settle these it would help the War 
Office. 

General Smuts : If any of these people cannot be present at meetings, those who 
represent them should be settled. 

General Ware: We want to know whether the High Commissioners should be 
definitely specified or whether, as Mr. Massey suggested, the words should be "Repre- 
sentatives of the self-governing Dominions," who need not necessarily be High 
Commissioners. v 

Chairman: The point is that in the Charter you gave Newfoundland the right, 
to name their representative, because they have not got a High Commissioner resident 
in London. The suggestion made is that you should make that applicable to all 
Dominions. This is really the point. 

Lord Derby : There would be no difficulty about that. 

Sir Joseph Ward: There is no objection to " the High Commissioner or such other 
representative." 

Chairman: Not he, but the Government may select. 

Sir Joseph Ward: Yes. 

Sir Robert Borden : They would be regarded as ex officio representatives. An- 
other point was raised by Mr. Massey which might be considered now and that is as 
to the power of delegation. I understood he had some objection to that. 

Mr. Massey : Yes. I really do not think that power should be there. I think it 
is quite right that the Ministers mentioned here should be members of the Commission, 
but I do not think they should have power to delegate their positions on this Com- 
mission to any official in their department. 

Mr. Chamberlain: Would not that be rather hard on the Secretary of State, for 
instance? He represents in this matter the Government of India. The Government 
of Canada or the Government of New Zealand may appoint anybody to act in the 
absence of their nominated person, but India would be deprived of any representation 
unless the Secretary of State could attend. 

Sir Robert Borden : Mr. Massey's objection was general, whether to the represen- 
tatives of the Dominions or to the Secretary of State. 

Mr. Chamberlain : I beg your pardon ; I thought he claimed the right for the 
Dominions. May I say what I think is the case? and then he will tell me whether I 
am right or wrong. I thought he claimed the right for the Dominions to substitute 
somebody for the High Commissioners if they so wished. 

Mr. Massey : Yes. 

Mr. Chamberlain : But he refuses that right to the Secretary of State for India 
to be represented by anybody except himself. 

Mr. Massey : Yes. I do not think Mr. Chamberlain has actually grasped the 
position, if he will allow me to say so In the one case the Imperial Minister would 
have the right to say to one of his officials, "You go along and represent me on this 
Commission." But I do not suggest that the High Commissioner representing any 
one of the Dominions should have the right to take up that position, and it would 



33 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

be for the Government of the country he represents in London to make some arrange- 
ment for some other man if they thought it desirable or proper. 

Sir Robert Borden : Pardon me, but I would like to know what your objection is. 
As it stands at present the Secretaries of State and the High Commissioners equally 
have the power of delegation. Are you objecting generally to the power of delegation 
as regards all, or are you objecting to the power of delegation as regards the Secretaries 
of State? 

Sir Joseph Ward : In our case we suggest that he should be " the High Com- 
missioner or such other representative as the Government may appoint." 

Sir Robert Borden : I understand Mr. Massey objects to the High Commissioner 
ex officio. 

Sir Joseph Ward: Pardon me; the proposal is "the High Commissioner or such 
other representative as the Government may suggest." 

Sir Robert Borden : But still he would be an ex officio member to represent the 
particular Government. 

Sir Joseph Ward: No. That is not so. 

Sir George Perley : The man who is ex officio s representing the Dominion ought 
to have the power of substitution, because he may be ill and may be unable to go, and 
therefore he may want to send somebody else to a particular meeting — not substitution 
for always,, but substitution for any meeting that may be called. 

Mr. Massey: This is substitution for always. 

Sir Joseph Ward: I think Sir George Perley is right there. 

Sir George Perley : Subsection (3) of clause 5 of Part IV only refers to special 
meetings, if you read it. 

General Ware : Mr. Massey, if you would cast a more favourable eye on this poor 
old Charter of ours you will see that it endeavours to meet this difficulty, and it differs 
in this respect from the impression given you by reading the Minute. What is done 
in the Charter is that the Secretaries of State mentioned are ex officio members of the 
Commission and they are given under clause 5 of Part IV, subsection (3), powers, if 
you will look at it: "If any ex officio member is unable to be present at any meeting 
he may appoint some fit person to represent him at such meeting." The High Com- 
missioners, or the representative who is appointed to this Commission, would have 
exactly the same powers as an ex officio member. I think that meets the case. If 
Mr. Massey approves the Charter, I do not think there will be any difficulty in meeting 
this point. 

Sir Joseph Ward : As I was saying, I agree with Sir George Perley that that takes 
away the effect. My suggestion is " the High Commissioner or such other represen- 
tative." 

General Ware : It is most important that a definite instruction should be given 
on the matter by the Conference, as the Charter does at present differ in this respect 
from the Resolution as proposed. 

Mr. Massey : General Ware must understand the position in which we are placed. 
This Memorandum was circulated yesterday, at least I saw it yesterday for the first 
time. I read it carefully, and I saw that it did not quite meet my ideas, and that I 
would have to suggest certain amendments Then we came along and are faced with 
a Draft Charter of eight pages. I am not a member of the legal fraternity, but I say 
it is impossible for any man on earth to understand all the proposals in that Charter 
at a minute's notice. 

Chairman : But on this simple point I do not think it raises any difficulty. It is 
a question on which I am sure there is a misapprehension. The suggestion of the 
Charter and the proposal of the War Office is that the Commission should be appointed 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 39 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

in a particular way. In the event of any Member of the Commission being unable to 
attend he has a power, which he really must have if you are to do business, of nominat- 
ing somebody for the purpose for a day, and only for a day. 

Mr. Massey : It does not say so. 

Chairman: Yes, it says so distinctly, clause 5, subsection (3) of Part IV.: 
" If any ex-officio member is unable to be present at any meeting he may appoint some 
fit person to represent him at such meeting and such representative shall be entitled 
to exercise all the powers and privileges of such member save that he shall not be 
entitled or chosen to preside at such meeting." 

Sir Eobert Borden : It is not a general delegation. 

Mr. Massey: I think that does meet my objection. 

General Ware: We want an instruction from the Conference that that is their 
desire, as I take it it is. 

Sir Joseph Ward: I think what Mr. Massey wants is that the ordinary power 
of delegation should exist. 

Sir Eobert Borden: For a special meeting or a general meeting? 

Mr. Massey: Only for a special occasion. 

Sir Eobert Borden : It is not a general delegation ? 

Sir Joseph Ward: No. 

Mr. Massey : In the Memorandum it is a general delegation, and that is what 
I object to. 

- Sir Eobert Borden : That is the reason why I thought it would be desirable, if 
we pass the Eesolution, that we should give some attention to this Charter and not 
refer to the Minute alone, which dilt'ers from it in very material respects. I thought 
possibly you might modify the Eesolution somewhat in this way. If gentlemen will 
be good enough to look at it for a moment, it says : " Humbly pray His Majesty to 
constitute by Eoyal Charter an Imperial War Graves Commission for the purposes 
and on the lines stated by His Eoyal Highness." Instead of that I suggest " for the 
purposes stated by His Eoyal Highness and on the lines set forth as embodied in the 
Draft Charter submitted to the Conference " — something of that kind would meet it. 

Mr. Massey: But we have not read the Charter. I think the whole thing had 
better stand over. It is quite evident we are not going to arrive at any agreement 
to-day. 

Sir Eobert Borden : I do not know that we are ever going to arrive at an agree- 
ment. 

Chairman : I hope you will come to a decision. It is very difficult if we keep 
on postponing things every day, having regard to the very limited time at our disposal. 
I would not mind at all if we had the next month, but we have only eight days left. 

Lord Derby: Will Mr. Massey come to the War Office and see General Ware 
and myself with any amendments he would wish to put in? and we will then see how 
far we can incorporate them, and if we cannot incorporate them in toto, we can bring 
whatever differences we might have to this War Conference again. 

Mr. Massey: That means postponement. I am prepared to sit up all night 
sooner than allow our business to go undone. I am prepared to give up all my private 
engagements in order to attend to the business of this War Conference, but I do say 
it is unfair to come along with eight printed pages at a minute's notice and ask us to 
agree to it without having an opportunity of proper consideration. 

Chairman: I really must protest. No such suggestion has been made to the 
Conference; quite the reverse. On the contrary, all we have asked is that there shall 
be a general agreement reserving as an absolute right to the representatives of India 



40 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

and every Dominion to get any alterations they like made in this Draft Charter. 
Really we are not asking the Conference to rush anything or to decide anything with- 
out further consideration. 

Mr. Massey: When will those alterations be considered? 

Chairman: Supposing you accept the Secretary of State's invitation and go to 
the War Office and discuss this question and fail to get your point, then the Charter 
comes before the Conference again and you will be able to raise the question here. 

Mr. Massey: Does not that come back to what I said just now, that we cannot 
agree to-day if it is open to further amendment? 

Chairman: I do not think so. If we pass Sir Robert Borden's Resolution you 
are in a satisfactory position. 

General Smuts : Let us agree to the material point in this Motion. We ask 
His Majesty to constitute a Commission like that by Charter. That is really what is 
said in this Resolution, and the details are then left to discussion with the Director of 
Graves Registration. 

Mr. Massey: I have expressed my opinion and I am going to leave it at that. 
When Sir Robert Borden moves the Motion I will move my amendment. 

Sir Robert Borden: Lord Derby has submitted to me a clause which commends 
itself to my judgment and which might be added to the Resolution. Possibly it will 
enable us to dispose of it to-day : 

" The Conference places on record its appreciation of the French Govern- 
ment in allotting in permanency the land in that country where our men are 
buried, and urges that similar arrangements should be made, if possible, in the 
terms of peace with all the Governments, allied, enemy, or neutral, for a similar 
concession in Gallipoli, Mesopotamia, Africa, and all the theatres of war." 

General Smuts: Yes, there may be future theatres. 

Mr. Massey: I am prepared to accept that, and if I had been met in the same 
spirit at first I think we might have saved a somewhat lengthly discussion. 

Sir Robert Borden : I think this is very much the spirit in which you were met 
in the first instance, as far as I understand the situation. Might I be permitted to 
suggest then that we pass the Resolution : " The Conference having considered the 
Minute addressed to the Prime Minister on the 15th March, 1917, by His Royal High- 
ness the Prince of Wales, concur in the proposals made therein and humbly pray His 
Majesty to constitute by Royal Charter an Imperial War Graves Commission for the 
purposes stated by His Royal Highness and along the lines therein set forth as 
embodied in the Draft Charter submitted to the Conference" — "along the lines" is 
perfectly general. Then follows the amendment which Mr. Massey is willing to 
accept and which has been submitted to me by Lord Derby. 

Mr. Massey: Will you read that amendment again? 

Sir Robert Borden : " The Conference places on record its appreciation of the 
French Government in allotting in permanency the land in that country where our 
men are buried." 

Mr. Massey : " In perpetuity." 

Lord Derby: I am not a good draftsman. 

Mr. Massey: Perhaps it does not matter. 

Mr. Chamberlain : We had better say " appreciation of the action of the French 
Government." 

Sir Robert Borden : Yes. " Appreciation of the action — its very deep apprecia- 
tion of the generous action of the French Government in allotting in permanency." 
I think " in perpetuity " would be better. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 41 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

General Ware : Yes ; it has been done for ever. The Trench Government passed 
a law to that effect in 1915. It was an extraordinarily generous Act. 

Sir Robert Borden : " In allotting in perpetuity the land in that country where 
our men are buried." Did not they do something more ? 

General Ware: They offered to look after the graves as well, but we did not 
accept that offer and said we would do it. 

Sir Robert Borden : " And urges that similar arrangements should be made if 
possible in the terms of peace with all the Governments, allied, enemy, or neutral, for 
a similar concession in Gallipoli, Mesopotamia, Africa, and all other theatres of war." 
I think that covers it very appropriately. 

Mr. Massey : That will do for me. 

Sir Robert Borden : I will fix up this draft for the Secretary. 

Lord Derby: Will you come and see me about it, Mr. Massey? 

Mr. Massey : I will read the Charter first. 

General Ware : May I come to see you, Mr. Massey ? 

Mr. Massey; I shall be very glad to see General Ware if he comes along. 

Chairman: Can we adopt the Resolution as it has now been read, subject to it 
being put into absolute form by Sir Robert Borden. 

Mr. Massey : I accept it. 

Lord Derby: I may say one thing, that Sir Nevil Macready, the Adjutant- 
General, who is not here to-day, is ill and has gone on leave, but I would like the 
Conference to know that I am sure it is entirely owing to his efforts that from the very 
beginning these graves have been tended in the way they have been. He and Brigadier- 
General Ware, working under him, are really responsible for the organization which, 
although it cannot do in any enemy countries what it has done in allied countries, has 
done its best for the graves of our fallen men. I am sure the Conference will appreciate 
those efforts. 

Chairman : I am sure it will, and I hope Lord Derby will convey to the Adjutant- 
General our warm appreciation. 

Sir Robert Borden : I agree most heartily in that. 

Lord Derby: May I convey that? 

Chairman : Yes. 

Mr. Massey : It is a sacred duty to attend to these graves, and I hope it will not 
be neglected either now or for many centuries to come. 

Mr. Hazen: I have been glancing at the financial clauses in this Charter while 
I have been sitting here, and it appears to me that it is somewhat indefinite as to what 
provision is going to be made in order to obtain money for the purposes of this Com- 
mission for the keeping of these graves in proper condition. 

Sir Joseph Ward: Is not that a matter for suggestion in the Charter? 

Mr. Hazen : Is not this the time to make a suggestion? It seems to be contem- 
plated that an appeal for funds shall be made to the public. I want to put myself on 
record as being absolutely opposed to any such idea as making a public appeal for sub- 
scriptions or donations. 

General Smuts : That is for monuments or something of the kind. 

Mr. Hazen : I want to put myself on record as against any such method of getting 
money for the purpose of carrying on the work of this Commission. I do not think 
the care of the graves of the men who have made the supreme sacrifice for the Empire 
in the present War should depend in any measure upon voluntary subscriptions made by 
thd public, although I believe there might be a most generous response to any such 
appeal if it were made at the present ^ time. The care of these graves is to be in per- 



42 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 



7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 



petuity, and it seems to me that the care of these graves should be by funds provided by 
the State, that is, by the British Isles and by the Dominions, whose sons came over 
here to fight in this great struggle and have made the supreme sacrifice in so doing. 
Therefore my idea of the practical working out of it would be that the Commission, 
when constituted, should make an estimate of what money will be required, and that 
that should be distributed in fair proportions according to some method that may be 
agreed upon between the British Isles and the Dominions overseas which have sent 
forces over here, and whose sons lie buried in these different theatres of war. That 
expense, whatever it might be, will be met by the Dominions overseas heartily and with- 
out the slightest hesitation or opposition at all. I would like to put on record here my 
view that the funds for this purpose ought to be provided out of the funds of the 
State, and that there should be no appeal for voluntary subscriptions to the public for 
this purpose. Subsection (2) of clause 1 of Part VI. clearly contemplates subscrip- 
tions of that sort ; it says that the Commision is authorized " to appeal for and receive 
public subscriptions and donations in furtherance of the purposes of this Our Charter." 
And then it contemplates that money shall be left to them by bequest, gift, or grant. 
That is the reason I bring this matter before the Conference now. I think it is one 
of importance and ought to be determined. 

Lord Derby: I agree with you. I think it wants altering, but I think there are 
certain public subscriptions we may legitimately accept — not subscriptions to keep up 
the graves, but subscriptions which regiments will want to collect to erect monuments 
to their own men. What we want is to provide for the cases where regiments get 
subscriptions for monuments for their own men. We want to put it, I agree, in rather 
a different form, but this body should have the power of accepting that money and 
putting it to the use for which it is collected. 

Mr. Hazen : That is a very different thing from appealing for funds to the public. 

Mr. Chamberlain : I submit that subsection (2) is unnecessary and that you have 
all the power you want in subsection (3). 

Lord Derby : I think so. 

Mr. Chamberlain; The invidious thing is the first words of subsection (2), "to 
appeals for " funds. I think we all agree with what Mr. Hazen says. 

Mr. Hazen : If a regiment asks the Commission for permission to erect a monu- 
ment of the officers and men of the regiment who have fallen, that would be naturally 
granted at once; but, on the other hand, the Commission would not appeal to those 
regiments and ask them to raise funds for that purpose. 

Lord Derby: I agree, and I will move that subsection (2) be omitted. 

General Ware : If you leave us power to " receive," we will take out subsection 
(2), but under subsection (3) we have no power to receive. 

Lord Derby: Let us strike out subsection (2) altogether. 

Mr. Hazen : How do you propose to get the money ? Do you propose that the 
Commission should make an estimate from year to year of the amount required and 
that then they should ask the Overseas Dominions and the British Parliament to vote 
the necessary funds in such proportion as may be thought equitable and right? 

Lord Derby : Yes, that is what I would like. 

Sir Robert Borden : There is another matter I would like to suggest in connec- 
tion with that; I do not know that it need be the subject of a formal Resolution. 

Chairman; May we take out subsection (2) formally? Lord Derby proposes to 
withdraw subsection (2) of clause 1 under the heading " VI. — Financial." Is that 
your pleasure? 

Lord Derby : That is, the words, " To appeal for and receive public subscriptions 
and donations in furtherance of the purposes of this Our Charter," subsection (2) of 
clause 1 of Part VI. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 43 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Sir Joseph Ward: I am not sure that it should be struck out. 

Mr. Hazen : They will be entitled to receive " all funds." 

Sir Joseph Ward : I think it will require amending only. Suppose the relatives 
of those men desire to send along some funds for a particular purpose? 

Chairman : Surely that is met by subsection (3) ? 

Lord Derby : We could put in there " To receive and administer all funds, which 
may be given." That would meet it, Sir Joseph. 

Mr. Chamberlain : You have got the. words "or received from any other source" 
and now you will have " To receive and administer all funds which may be given or 
received from any other source." 

Mr. Eogers: That covers it. 

Chairman; The words "or received" are all-sufficient in subsection (3). 

General Ware : Considerable sums have already been collected by regiments, and 
we are under great pressure from relatives and regiments to erect permanent memorials 
which are forbidden now, as soon as possible. 

Mr. Chamberlain : In subsection (3) you have power to administer any funds you 
receive from any source. ' 

Mr. Massey: I entirely agree. 

General Ware: "To receive and administer?" 

Chairman : I think you should consider before you put in the words "receive and" 
here. I have some experience of draftsmanship and I think that would read very 
oddly. You have in subsection (3) the words now "to administer" and "or receive," 
and I am quite sure that any Government draftsman would say that the words "or 
received" would cover any funds, and that it wonld not be necessary to put in also 
"and receive." 

Sir Robert Borden : They should only be put in if necessary. 

General Ware: It is really a matter for the Government draftsman. 

Chairman: We can take out subsection (2). 

Mr. Massey : I want to speak on this, Sir, if I have the right to do so. 

Chairman: Yes. , 

Mr. Massey : Before we leave this subject I should like to say I thoroughly agree 
with the opinion expressed by Mr. Hazen. I think it is absolutely right that no appeal 
should be made to the public for subscriptions or contributions. The maintenance of 
these graveyards is a national duty, and, in the first instance, they should be maintained 
out of the public funds of Britain and the British Dominions; but I do not see any 
objection to generously-minded people, who perhaps have relatives buried in these 
graveyards, coming along with sums for the purpose of erecting monuments. I do 
think that the provision should be kept in to allow of these sums. 

Chairman: That is in subsection (3). 

Mr. Massey: Exactly. I believe the whole power required is in subsection (3), and 
therefore, as far as I am concerned, I see no objection to subsection (2) being struck 
out. 

Sir Bobert Borden : If that is disposed of I might mention another matter. I do 
not observe any provision for a report from' the Commission to the several Govern- 
ments which will contribute the necessary funds for the purpose of keeping up the 
graves. If the Governments of the Overseas Dominions, as well as the British Govern- 
ment, contribute, as undoubtedly they will, to the support of this most necessary work, 
it seems to me that there should be a provision in the Charter for an official report to 
all the Governments which so contribute, in order that such report may bq laid before 
each Parliament, and in order that Parliament may have proper information as to the 



44 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

. 7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

expenditure of the moneys which are to be contributed and generally as to the work of 
the Commission. 

1 Mr. Massey : I quite agree. 

Sir Satyendra Sinha : Isi not that provided for under Part VIII headed "Annual 
Eeport and Statement of Accounts"? 

General Ware : It does not say to whom the report is to be addressed. The only 
provision made is for drawing up a report. I understand that the Prime Minister of' 
Canada suggests that these reports should be made to the different Governments of the 
Empire. 

Mr. Hazen: I see that every member of the Commission is entitled to receive a 
copy. 

Sir Robert Borden : But that is not quite the same thing. 

Sir Joseph Ward : Sir Robert Borden is, in my opinion, quite right. A report 
should go to the Governments who are furnishing the money. 

Mr. Massey : I see, as a matter of fact, I made a note of this on reading the Memo- 
randum and my note was as follows : "Such Commission should report annually to the 
Imperial Government and the Governments of the Oversea Dominions of the Empire 
on its financial position and other matters of importance connected with its duties." 
I think it should be provided for. 

Sir Robert Borden : It should be in the Charter. 

Mr. Massey: Certainly. 

Sir Robert Borden : I entirely agree. Perhaps it is unnecessary to move a formal 
Resolution if you will accept it as a direction. 

Chairman: Will you accept that? 

General Ware: Yes. 

Mr. Hazen : Is this now finally disposed of — at the meeting this morning — because 
the discussion which has taken place shows how necessary it is to consider it very 
carefully ? 

Chairman: We are specially reserving the right that the Charter should be 
amended. 

Sir Robert Borden: The Charter is to be circulated and considered. 

Mr. Hazen : If it could be circulated a day or two in advance of the meeting where 
it is to be considered it would expedite mattens very much and save time. 

Chairman : I have made a note of that. la there anything else which arises now ? 

Mr. Massey : I think the Charter, before it is finally disposed of, should certainly 
be shown with the amendments in it. 

Sir Robert Borden : That is understood* 

Chairman: You do not want another copy of it in its present form? 

Mr. Massey: No. 



* Note. — The draft Charter printed on pp. 146-156 shows these amendements in Italic. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 45 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 



NINTH DAY. 
Monday, 16th April, 1917. 

The Imperial War Conference met at the Colonial Office at 11 a.m. 

present: ' 

The Eight Honourable Walter H. Long, M.P., Secretary of State for the Colonies 
(Chairman of the Conference). 

Canada. 

The Eight Honourable Sir E. Borden, G.C.M.G., Prime Minister. 

The Honourable Sir G. H. Perley, K.C.M.G., Minister of Overseas Military 

Forces. 
The Honourable J. D. Hazen, Minister of Marine and Fisheries and Minister 

of the Naval Service. 

New Zealand. 

The Eight Honourable W. F. Massey, Prime Minister. 

The Eight Honourable Sir Joseph Ward, Bart, K.C.M.G., Minister of Finance. 

South Africa. 

Lieutenant-General the Eight Honourable J. C. Smuts, Minister of Defence. 

Newfoundland. 

The Eight Honourable Sir E. P. Morris, KC.M.G., Prime Minister. 

.India. 

The Eight Honourable A. Chamberlain, Secretary of State for India. 
S^ J. S. Meston, K.C.S.I., Lieutenant-Governor of the United Provinces. 
Colonel His Highness The Maharaja of Bikaner, G.C.S.L, G.C.I.E., A.D.C. 
Sir S. P. Sinha, Member Designate of the Executive Council of the Governor of 
Bengal. 

Mr. H. C. M. Lambert, C.B., Secretary to the Conference. 

Mr. E. J. Harding, Junior Assistant Secretary to the Conference. 

THERE WERE ALSO PRESENT: 

Sir G. V. Fiddes, G.C.M.G., C.B., Permanent Under Secretary of State for the 

Colonies. 
Mr. A. D. Steel-Maitland, M.P., Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for the 

Colonies. 
Lieutenant-Colonel W. Dally Jones, Assistant Secretary of the War Cabinet, 

and 
Private Secretaries. 



46 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Care of Soldiers' Graves. 

Chairman : I ought to inform the Conference that in regard to the graves arrange- 
ment I have asked the Foreign Office to be good enough to convey to the. French Gov- 
ernment in very warm terms the thanks of the Conference, representing the British 
Empire, for their splendid generosity in giving in perpetuity the land for the various 
cemeteries in France. 

Mr. Massey : Will a copy of the telegram so sent by the Foreign Office be placed 
on record along with the proceedings of the Conference? 

Chairman: Certainly. A copy of the telegram sent by the Foreign Office ought 
to be on record.* 

Representation of India at future Imperial Conferences. 

With regard to the Eesolution governing India and its publication, the Indian 
Government are very anxious that it should be published, and I have telegraphed to 
the Commonwealth of Australia, and at the end of the message I said : " The Indian 
Government is anxious for immediate publication in view of good effect which will be 
produced there. Having regard to your despatch of January 9, I presume your Min- 
isters will see no objection if the Conference, who will be consulted on Monday next, 
so decide." Would the Conference agree to the publication of the Eesolution about 
the inclusion of India, subject to our receiving a satisfactory reply from Australia, 
which has not come yet, but which will no doubt be satisfactory, because the despatch 
referred to approved of the matter in principle before? 

Sir Edward Morris : I think so. 

Sir Eobert Borden: I do not see any objection to that. 

Mr. Chamberlain: Then I take it I shall hear from you, Sir, as soon as you 
have received this? 

Chairman : Yes, as soon as I receive an answer I will let you know. 

Mr. Chamberlain : Thank you.t 



Constitution of the Empire. 

Sir Eobert Borden: I should like to make a slight amendment in the terms of 
the Eesolution by substituting for the word " thereafter " at the end of the first para- 
graph the words " as soon as possible after the cessation of hostilities." It would then 
read in this way : " The Imperial War Conference are of opinion that the readjust- 
ment of the constitutional relations of the component parts ,of the Empire is too* 
important and intricate a subject to be dealt with during the War and that it should 
form the subject of a special Imperial Conference to be summoned as soon as pos- 
sible after the cessation of hostilities. They deem it their duty, however, to place on 
record their view that any such readjustment, while thoroughly preserving all existing 
powers , of self-government and complete control of .domestic affairs, should be based 
upon a full recognition of the Dominions as autonomous nations of an Imperial Com- 
monwealth, should recognize their right to an adequate voice in foreign policy and in 
foreign relations, and should provide effective arrangements for continuous consulta- 
tion in all important matters of common Imperial concern and for such necessary 
concerted action founded on consultation as the several Governments may determine." 

*See despatch printed on pp. 160. 

t Note. — The Resolution was subsequently published accordingly. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 47 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

This subject is one upon which I might speak at great length. Many proposals 
with regard to the subject have been discussed in the United Kingdom and in all 
the Dominions of the Empire fort many years past in all possible phases. There can 
be no doubt as to its importance. The growth of the Dominions in wealth and popula- 
tion has been very remarkable during the past fifty years, especially during the last 
twenty-five years. Their future growth we hope — and, more than that we believe — 
will be even more marked. Foreign policy and foreign relations, with which is inti- 
mately connected the question of the common defence of the Empire, have been under 
the immediate control of the Government of the United Kingdom, responsible to the 
Paliament of the United Kingdom. It would appear from the views of constitutional 
writers that this condition during the later phases of the growth of the Oversea Do- 
minions has proceeded on a theory of trusteeship which, whatever may be said of it 
in the past, is certain to prove not only entirely inadequate to the needs of the Empire 
but incompatible with the aspirations of the people of the Dominions in the future. 
I have spoken of the growth of the Dominions; it is by no means improbable that 
children now living will see their population surpass that of the United Kingdom. It 
is quite within the range of possibility that a single Dominion might grow to the extent 
which I have mentioned. Therefore it seems to me beyond question that the theory of 
trusteeship to which I have alluded cannot be continued indefinitely in the future. 

In approaching the subject one is impressed especially with this consideration, that 
the greatest intellects of the Empire in the past have miscalculated the conditions 
that would develop in the Dominions, and have failed to foresee the relations of the 
Empire under the policy of developing full powers of self-government which was sup- 
posed to have the tendency of weakening, if not severing, the ties which unite the 
Dominions to the Mother Country. The policy of complete control in domestic affairs 
and complete autonomy in all local affais, instead of weakening the ties which unite 
the Empire, has very greatly strengthened them. It was said by a statesman of the 
highest capacity after that policy had been embarked upon (that is the policy of grant- 
ing to the Dominions complete autonomy) that it was an absolute mistake, that it 
could only lead to the weakening and severance of relations, and that it would have 
been a wise policy to preserve in the United Kingdom control of the natural resources 
of the Dominions, and control over their fiscal policy; that this would have tended to 
unite the Empire, and regret was expressed that some such policy had not been main- 
tained. All of us in. the Dominions, and I think the people of the British Isles, realize 
now that any such policy would have had most unfortunate and, more than that, 
disastrous results. The policy which was supposed to weaken the Empire has really 
strengthened it, and I look forward to a development in the future along the line of an 
increasingly equal status between the Dominions and the Mother Country. It seems to 
me that the attainment of full citizenship, which involves a voice in foreign relations, 
will proceed along the line to which I have alluded. The nations of the Empire are really 
bou*nd together by the tie of a common allegiance, by like institutions and ideals of 
democracy, and by like purposes. Such ties will bring the nationsof the Empire together 
more closely upon the line which I have mentioned. I say this with a full understanding 
that it is unwise, having regard to the lessons of the past, for any of us to predict 
absolutely the developments of the future. But, nevertheless, the line of development 
which has been noticeable during the past twenty or twenty-five years seems to point 
unmistakably to that conclusion. Indeed, the action of the Dominions in this war 
has made the spirit of nationhood splendidly manifest. The fact that one million men 
in the Dominions have taken up arms for the defence of the Empire's existence and 
the maintenance of its future influence is so significant a lesson that one would be 
unwise not to have it constantly in mind. I believe that the Dominions fully realise 
the ideal of an Imperial Commonwealth of United Nations and one should not forget 
the importance of the Crown as a tie between the Dominions and the Mother Country. 
His Majesty King George V is especially associated with the Oversea Dominions, 



48 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

because he is the first Sovereign who, before he ascended the Throne, availed himself 
of the opportunity to visit all parts of the Empire and to make himself acquainted 
with the ideals and aspirations of their people. And the Queen was recognised through- 
out the Dominions of the Empire as distinctively -a British princess before her mar- 
riage to the King. 

Now the subject of the future relations of the Empire is not only an important 
but a very complex one. I would not make any conjectures beyond what I have said 
as to the ultimate solution. It is manifest, I think, that under the present conditions 
it would be unwise for this Conference to attempt to enter upon that subject. I hope 
that the delegation which will come to the next Conference from the Dominion which 
I have the honour to represent will be representative of all political parties. A subject 
of the vast importance which is involved in the consideration of future, inter-Imperial 
relations would seem to demand that condition if it is to be approached in a proper 
spirit, because we all agree, I am sure, that so great a question ought not to be made, 
either here or in the Dominions, a question of party strife or party controversy if it 
can possibly be prevented. 

There has been a very remarkable advance even since we arrived in the British 
Islands; it is a development which has greatly impressed me, and it seems to be due 
to the force of great events rather than to any premeditation or design. The fact that 
an Imperial War Cabinet as well as a British War Cabinet are sitting in London 
to-day is in itself of great significance. There may be possibly some guidance in that 
step for the future relations which will give to the Overseas Dominions their proper 
voice in the great matters which I have mentioned. However, it would be unwise to 
attempt to forecast. The Resolution which I have proposed does not attempt to do so : 
it merely proposes that a special Imperial Conference shall be summoned as soon as 
possible after the War; and it does at the same time place on record the view of this 
Conference that any readjustment of relations must, in the first place, preserve all 
the existing powers of self-government and complete control of domestic affairs, that 
it must be based on a complete recognition of the Dominions as autonomous nations 
of an Imperial Commonwealth, and must fully recognise their right to a voice in 
f oreign policy and in foreign relations The willing acceptance of that principle by 
the Mother Country is an immense stride in advance. 

I have had the advantage of discussing the terms of the Resolution to some extent 
with my colleagues round this board, and I have made them all acquainted with the 
principle which is embodied in the Resolution I hope that it may commend itself to 
their judgment. I hope further that the Conference to be summoned will approach 
its deliberations and frame its conclusions on the lessons of the past, so that the future 
structure of the Empire may be erected on the sure and firm foundations of freedom 
and co-operation, autonomy and unity. 

Chairman: Do you move that Resolution now? 

Sir Robert Borden : Yes, I move the Resolution. 

Chairman: It will not be necessary for me' to read it again. 

Mr. Massey : I will second that formally, if it is necessary to second it, and in 
doing so I will say that I agree thoroughly with almost every opinion that Sir Robert 
Borden has expressed in moving the Resolution which is now before the Conference, 
and I agree with him particularly in the opinion^ which is really expressed in the* 
Motion itself, that at a time like this, when the statesmen of the Empire are engaged 
in carrying on our share of the most serious war which has ever occupied our atten- 
tion and when the subject of the War is occupying nearly the whole of the attention 
of most of the thinking people of the British Empire, it is impossible to take in hand 
such an important question as the "Reorganization of the Empire" and, as expressed 
in the Motion, " the readjustment of the constitutional relations of its component 
parts." That will have to stand over, so far as this Conference is concerned, until the 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 49 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

War comes to an end, and until a more representative Conference can be got together 
than the present one. Personally, I should like to see a much larger Conference con- 
vened for the special purpose which Sir Robert Borden has in view, and I should like 
to see it representative not only of the Governments of the different Dominions and 
of the different parts of the Empire, but I should like to see it representative, if it is 
possible so to arrange) it, of the different parties in the different Dominions of the 
Empire. If we are going to raise this question above party — and I think in its import- 
ance it is far and away beyond anything in the way of party politics, then we must 
give the different political parties in the Empire the opportunity of coming together at 
the Council Board and expressing their opinions, and, if their opinions are thought 
worthy of being adopted, that opportunity should be given by the other members of the 
Conference which it is intended to convene. When I say the parties, I am not refer- 
ring to all the parties, because there may be small parties that it might not be necessary 
to have represented; but I am thinking of the more important parties, such as we 
understand them in the different countries. I know this is not a new idea, and I 
know that something in this way has been suggested r at previous ordinary Imperial 
Conferences, although, so far as I can recollect, it was not given effect to to any 
extent, if at all. 

I thoroughly agree, too, with the point Sir Robert Borden made when he stated 
that in these matters we -have to look forward and we have, in particular, to be guided 
by the lessons of the War. I hope, Mr. Long, that point will be borne in mind when 
the Conference meets, and especially with regard to population. I have not the very 
slightest doubt that Sir Robert Borden was right in saying that there are people now 
living who will see a larger population in the different Dominions than the population 
of what is called the United Kingdom to-day; I have no doubt that will be the case. 
I believe a very important migration will take place when the War comes to an end 
which in the ordinary course will have its effect upon the different Dominions; and 
this War itself has directed the attention of people in every part of the United King- 
dom to the possibilities of the Dominions. I will not argue further on that line because, 
as a matter of fact, there is another Motion in the Order Paper standing in my own 
name which will give a better opportunity for discussing it, but in the main I agree 
with the opinions expressed by Sir Robert Borden. N 

Then the Prime Minister of 'Canada also referred to the necessity for considering 
and maintaining — I will not go to the length of saying complete, but, the existing 
autonomy of the different parts of the Empire. In any arrangement that may be made 
in the future for the closer unity of the different portions of the Empire and for 
drawing them more closely together and keeping them together, I am quite certain it is 
necessary to make the ties that hold the different parts together as easily carried as 
it is possible to arrange. A great statesman who lived one hundred years ago or 
thereabouts and whose name frequently comes up in matters of this kind expressed 
the opinion, looking forward even from his time, that if the different parts of the 
Empire were to be kept together the bonds to hold them would need to be " while 
stronger than steel as light as silk. " Whatever bonds may be arranged will have to 
be arranged in such a way that they will not chafe and not seriously inconvenience 
British citizens in any part of the Empire. 

Sir Robert Borden referred to our fiscal arrangements. Here particularly, and I 
mention this now with the object of placing my opinion on record, I think it is not 
desirable for any Imperial organization of the future, whatever form that Imperial 
organization may take, ' to interfere with the fiscal arrangements of the different 
parts of the Empire any more than can possibly be helped. What I mean is that at 
present the younger nations of the Empire have the right to impose their own 
taxation in their own way and to collect their own revenue in their own way, and 
those rights, particularly, should not be attempted to be interfered with, because I am 
certain that any such interference would lead to very serious friction and probably 

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50 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

put this movement back for perhaps many years to come, and none of us desire to 
see that. Sir Robert Borden referred to the lessons of the past, and I think on an 
occasion like this there is not one of its who can forget what happened in connection 
with the breach between England and what were then the American Colonies a great 
many years ago. I hope that lesson will be borne in mind and that nothing of the 
sort will ever happen again in the history of the British Empire; but if it is not to 
happen, then a crisis such as that which led up to that very serious trouble and to the 
breach which followed must be avoided. 

Speaking on this point, of course the question will be asked, "How is any such 
organization in the future to find money for carrying on the h/usines® of the Empire?" 
Well, personally I do not think it is a difficult question to answer, because I am 
confident that for the purpose of carrying on the organization, and for Imperial 
purposes generally, when the different Dominions, or different parts of the Empire, as 
the case may be, are asked for their share of the finance, and their share of the capital 
required, the necessary capital will be found, and will be forthcoming ; only, as I said 
before, each part of the Empire must find it in its own way. 

In the case of war and in the case of the possibilities of war we cannot forget 
that the present arrangement, loose as it has been, has worked very well indeed. 
Each part of the Empire has found troops, some of them have found ships, in 
proportion to their wealth and in proportion to their population, and I believe that 
arrangement may be continued with advantage to the whole of the Empire, and with 
benefit to the whole of its citizens. I know that numberless opinions have been 
expressed upon what ought to be done, innumerable pamphlets have been written and 
innumerable speeches have been delivered, and I am bound to say that all these 
writings and all these speeches and all these changes of opinion which have taken 
place during the last dozen years, particularly since the War commenced, have done a 
very great deal of good, inasmuch as. they have set the population of the Empire 
. thinking, and they have impressed people who had never studied the question 
previously with the potentialities of the Oversea Dominions and with the necessity of 
taking advantage of the present opportunity to bring the different parts of the 
Empire more closely together than ever before, and to bind them in such a way that 
they will not be likely to separate for many centuries to come, and I trust that they 
will never separate. Suggestions have been made at different times that we should 
at once consider the question of an Imperial Parliament dealing purely with Imperial 
questions and leaving local matters, or provincial matters (according to the manner 
of expression), to be dealt with by provincial or local legislatures elected for the 
purpose. I believe, and I have expressed this opinion previously publicly and 
otherwise, that such an arrangement will develop in course of time, but I do think 
that it would be a mistake at the present juncture to attempt too much. This matter 
is far too important to attempt to bring it rapidly into operation. I believe that 
every step that we take y as citizens of the Empire in this connection has to be thought 
out very carefully before it is taken. If not, then we are likely to make mistakes 
and the present generation may not see any further advance than has been made up 
to the present. 

A very great deal has been said in favour of an Imperial Parliament, and 
in theory there is not a very great deal to be said against it, subject to the limita- 
tions about which I have already expressed an opinion, that is the limitations 
particularly with regard to preserving the autonomy of the different parts of the 
self-governing Dominions of the Empire. There are others who think — and I 
have heard this opinion expressed — that the present arrangement which gives the 
Dominions a representation in the Cabinet of the Empire is a good one; and it is a 
good one ; I thoroughly agree with that. Many people think that should be sufficient 
for quite a long time to come and that it should be continued, and I will offer my 
own opinion upon that point presently. I think that even this advance is far more 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 51 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

important than many of the people in the different parts of the Empire have up to 
the present realised. I think that when the Dominions were asked to send 
representatives from their Legislatures, from their Governments, to the Imperial 
War Cabinet, it was one of the most important events that had ever taken place in 
the history of the British Empire, and I am confident that posterity will look upon it 
from that point of view, and, speaking for myself, I appreciate fully everything which 
has been done. 

And just let me gay here, in case I forget before I bring my remarks to a close* 
that I would like to suggest that this Imperial Conference should express an opinion 
to the effect, or make a recommendation to the effect, that the present arrangement 
should continue until the Conference which we are all of opinion should be convened 
for the purpose mentioned in the Motion has met, and until the new arrangement, 
whatever it may be, comes into operation. As an Imperialist I feel somewhat 
strongly on this point. As Imperialists we have gained a very great deal. I know 
that public opinion in Britain and public opinion in the Dominions is in favour of 
going forward rather than going back, and I express my own personal opinion when 
I say that it would be a retrograde step if we allowed this Conference to come to an 
end without expressing our appreciation of what has been done in the way of repre- 
sentation of the Dominions, and expressing our opinion in favour of the present 
representation continuing until something better has been agreed upon and has come 
into operation. 

Then there is another school, who advance the theory that anything in the way 
of an Imperial Parliament will not be likely to work so well as something in the way 
of what is called an Imperial Council — again, of course, representatives of the different 
Dominions — which would not have the powers that would he possessed by the Imperial 
Cabinet, but which would meet annually, say, and which would deal with all matters 
of Imperial importance, and would in its tuffn make representation to the Parliaments; 
of the different Dominions and to the Parliament of the United Kingdom itself. 

My own idea is, that if we can make such arrangements as will allow the present 
representation of the Imperial Cabinet to continue, even when the War comes to ant 
end, if we can also along with that have a representative Imperial Council, then, I 
think, a very great deal will have been done and a very long step forward will hava 
been taken along the road on which we are so anxious to travel. The Imperial 
Conference, which has been in the habit of meeting every four years, and which in 
itself I am bound to say was a very important advance, admitted the right of the 
Dominions to be consulted in connection with Imperial affairs. But something more 
than that is required at present, and something more than that must result from the 
position the Dominions have taken up during the present War. 

Speaking of the present War, I may say I am not one of those who think that 
the Dominions came into the War simply to assist what we are all pleased 
and proud to call the Mother Country. I do not look at it from that point 
of view at all. We came into the War as Oversea Dominions of the Empire 
because we are part of the Empire and because the Empire to which we belong was 
being attacked, and if we had not come into the War in the way that has happened 
and which we are all proud of and pleased with — and let me say here not one of us would 
go back upon it — I have no hesitation in saying that as British citizens and as citizens 
of no unimportant parts of the world now, and which are likely to be much more 
important in years to come, we should not have done our duty. We are glad to think 
that as a result of what has taken place, instead of, as many people imagined would be 
the case, that at the first shock of war the Empire would go to pieces, there is a better 
spirit throughout the Empire to-day than has ever obtained in past years at any time in 
its history ; and I am glad to include in that the Empire of India which is represented 
at this Conference, and which I believe will be represented at any Conferences to 
consider Imperial affairs! that may take place in the future. Sir Robert Borden when 
speaking used a term which implies a very great deal. It is a term which I have 

42a— 4£ 



52 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

used myself on more than one occasion, and' a term with the use of which I 
thoroughly agree, and that is the term "United Nations". We are coming together, 
not, as used to b|e considered, as the United Kingdom with its dependencies. That is 
not the position to-day. We are coming together as United Nations of the Empire 
and on equal terms so far as the populations of the different parts of the Empire 
will allow. 

I was pleased to hear the reference of Sir Robert Borden to the Monarchy. 
The subject of form of Government is occupying the attention, in view of recent 
happenings, of liberty -loving people all over the world. There is no doubt that 
something in the way of more democratic and more representative forms of govern- 
ment is in the air; it is in the atmosphere, so to speak, and we cannot get away from 
it; but in case there should be any misapprehension in the minds of people who are 
interested in this Conference or who may think it worth while to read the proceedings 
or the records of this Conference in the future, I would just like to say that T, 
speaking as a British citizen, believe that the British Empire has to-day probably the 
freest and most progressive form of government that the world has ever seen. We 
do not propose to go back upon that in the very slightest. But following up that 
point I would just like to say that, in my opinion, the British monarchy is the keystone 
of the Imperial arch. I do not need to elaborate that point, but when I express that 
opinion I think it speaks for itself, and I am quite certain in expressing it I have 
expressed an opinion with which every member of this Conference will agree. 

I do not think I need to say any more on the subject except just this, that one 
of your great British statesmen; and poets made the statement that the British 
Constitution had broadened down from precedent to precedent. Precedents are now 
following each other in rapid succession. History is being made very rapidly, and 
I have no doubt as time goes on and if we take advantage of the opportunities that 
offer — and they are offering now — we shall be able to arrange the Constitution which, 
as public men representing important parts of the British Empire, we are privileged 
to deal with, in a way which will provide for the future possibilities and the future 
wants of the great Empire to i which we belong. 

I would like to suggest to the Conference and to Sir Robert Borden that he 
should include in, or consent to be added to, his motion something on the lines I have 
already referred to. I had drafted a motion, but, as a matter of fact, I had forgotten 
that this matter was coming up to-day and, therefore, I was not prepared to speak 
upon it, and perhaps the opinion© I have expressed have been somewhat disconnected 
in consequence, but the one ideal I .have in mind, which I am going to suggest to 
Sir Robert Borden and to the Conference, is that something in this way should be 
added: "That until such Conference" — that is the special Conference contemplated 1 — 
"has met, and arrived at its conclusions, this Imperial War Conference recommends 
"that the present arrangements by which representatives of the Dominions and of 
"India occupy seats in the Imperial Cabinet shall continue." 

I second the Resolution if it is necessary. 

Chairman : This Resolution is proposed by Sir Robert Borden and seconded 
by Mr. Massey. Does any other member of the Conference desire to say anything 
before the motion is put ? 

General Smuts: I should like to say a few words, if I may. I need hardly 
point out that this is far and away the most important point on the agenda of our 
Conference this time. The British Empire is the most important and fascinating 
problem in political and constitutional government which the world has ever seen. 
Whenever we come to this question of a proper constitution for this Empire we 
touch on the very gravest and most important issues. As a matter of fact we are 
the only group of nations that has ever successfully existed. People talk about a 
league of nations and international government, but the only successful experiment 
in international government that has ever been made is the British Empire, founded 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 53 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

on principles which appeal to the highest political ideals of mankind. Founded on 
liberal principles, and principles of freedom and equality, it has continued to exist 
for a good time now, and our hope is that the basis may he so laid for the future 
that it may become an instrument for good, not only in the Empire but in the whole 
world. 

The subjject matter of this Resolution, as Sir Robert Borden has stated, has been 
carefully considered, and although, quite properly, a definite decision on the main 
problem is to be postponed for future action by a more important Conference than 
this, yet certain principles are affirmed here in this Resolution which are very im- 
portant and far reaching. The Resolution refers in the first place to the question of 
the status of the Self-governing Dominions. That matter has already been referred 
to both by Sir Robert Borden and by Mr. Massey, and I wish to say a few words in 
reference to the point. The Resolution says that any future settlement that is come 
to must " be based upon a full recognition of the Dominions as autonomous Nations 
of an Imperial Commonwealth." The whole question of the future status of the Domin- 
ions, is therefore raised in this Resolution. So far the British Empire has developed 
along natural lines. The Dominions started as Colonies and as settlements of the 
Mother Country and of the British Isles. They started as Crown Colonies; they deve- 
loped into Self-governing Colonies, and now they have become the present Domin- 
ions. Other parts of the world have been added to the Empire, until to-day we have 
really a congeries of nations. These old Colonies and the present Dominions have in 
course of time increased in importance, increased in population, and in economic 
importance, and are to-day already playing a part in the world which seems to my 
mind to make it very necessary that their status should be very seriously considered, 
and should be improved.- Too much, if I may say so, of the old ideas still clings to 
the new organism which is growing. I think that although in practice there is great 
freedom, yet in actual theory the status of the Dominions is of a subject character. 
Whatever we may say, and whatever we may think, we are subject Provinces of Great 
Britain. That is the actual theory of the Constitution, and in many ways which I 
need not specify to-day that theory still permeates practice to some extent. I think 
that is one of the most important questions — one of the most important matters — ■ 
tnat will have to be dealt with when this question of our future constitutional rela- 
tions on a better and more permanent basis comes to be considered. The Status of 
the Dominions as equal Nations of the Empire will have to be recognised to a very 
large extent. The Governments of the Dominions as equal Governments of the King 
in the British Commonwealth will have to be considered far more fully than that is 
done to-day, at any rate in the theory of the Constitution if not in practice. That is 
the most important principle laid down in the second part of this Resolution, that 
there should be "a full recognition of the Dominions as autonomous nations." And 
to strengthen the point the resolution goes on to affirm that the existing powers of 
self-government should not be interfered with. Of course there is a good deal of feel- 
ing of natural and justifiable jealousy in the Dominions as to the rights which they 
have acquired and which they do not like to be tampered with, and, naturally, I think 
it is very wise to add this to the Resolution, that their existing powers of self-govern- 
ment should not be tampered with. If that. is so it follows that one theory, one pro- 
posed solution of our future constitutional relations, is negatived, by this Resolution. 
If this Resolution is parsed, then one possible solution is negatived, and that is the 
Eederal solution. The idea of a future Imperial Parliament and a future Imperial 
Executive is negatived by implication by the terms of this Resolution. 
The idea on which this Resolution is based is rather that the Empire would develop 
Oil the lines uron which it has developed hitherto, that there would be more freedom 
and more equality in all its constituent parts; that they will continue to legislate for 
themselves and continue to govern themselves; that whatever executive action has to 
be taken, even in common concerns, would have to be determined, as the last para- 
graph says, by " the several Governments " of the Empire, and the idea of a Eederal 



54 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

solution is therefore negatived, and, I think, very wisely, because it seems to me that 
the circumstances of the Empire entirely preclude the Federal solution. Here we are, 
as I say, a group of nations spread over the whole world speaking different languages, 
belonging to different races with entirely different economic circumstances, and to 
attempt to run even the common concerns of that group of nations by means of a Cen- 
tral Parliament and a Central Executive is, to my mind, absolutely to court disaster. 
The experiment has been tried in the United States and, it is said, with great success. 
Well, of course, the experiment in the United States has not lasted very long, and 
we must see whether it will continue successfully under the stress of the great expe- 
rience into which America is now entering. But I am now informed by those who are 
very close observers of American government and American institutions that they are 
certain that the experiment has reached its utmost limits. In that case you have a 
compact country, a compact half continent, where people live together, where they all 
go through the same mould, and where they are all formed more or less on the same 
lines; whereas in this Empire you have an entirely different " state of affairs. The 
young nations are developing on their own lines ; the young nations are growing into 
Great Powers, and it will be impossible to attempt to govern them in future by one 
common Legislature and one common Executive. 

Then if we are to continue as nations and to grow as nations and govern our- 
selves as nations the great question arises : How are we to keep this Empire together ? 
That is the other important point, I take it, in this Resolution — the point which re- 
cognises that there should be effective arrangements for continuous consultation in 
all common concerns, especially in concerns which are mentioned there specifically, 
that is foreign policy ; but in all common concerns that there should be effective arrange- 
ments for continuous consultation. Setting aside the Federal solution as not applic- 
able to this Empire, which is not merely a State but a system of States, half the world 
in itself — setting aside that solution, the question arises how you are to keep the 
different parts together? and it can only be done on the basis of freedom and equality 
which has existed hitherto, only the machinery would have to be arranged on which 
that system could be worked. I think it will not pass the wit 'of man to devise ways 
of continuous consultation — not intermittent, not every four years as we have had 
hitherto, but continuous consultation. Sir Robert Borden has pointed out in that 
great speech of his at the Parliamentary dinner — one of the finest speeches I have 
ever listened to, and one of the wisest I have ever listened to — that a practice which 
has now arisen spontaneously of a double Cabinet may in the future provide the germs 
of a solution. I express no opinion upon that, because very intricate constitutional 
questipns are bound up with that, and it is quite possible to arrange this system of 
consultation and continuous Conference even on a different basis and yet to make it 
perfectly workable and feasible as a means of keeping the different parts of the Empire 
together. It seems to me that some such machinery will have to be devised and that 
it will not be difficult to devise it once we come to sit round the table and discuss the 
matter carefully. In that way it will be possible, while leaving full executive action 
to the various more or less equal Governments of the Empire, while leaving full exe- 
cutive responsibility to them, to see that in all important concerns there is consulta- 
tion and continuous consultation; that there is an exchange of ideas and that the 
system, whilst preserving freedom and equality in its parts, will work with a strong 
sense of unity at the centre. 

" I think, if this Resolution is passed, Sir, we will have taken an immense step for- 
ward in the history of the Empire. If we pass no other Resolution at this Conference 
than this one, I am sure that we will have done a good day's work for this Empire. 
We are emerging out of one area and we are entering upon another where much great- 
er problems will confront us than ever before. So 1 far it has been possible for us each 
to go his own way, meeting once in so many years. In future it will be necessary for 
us to keep much more closely in touch with each other. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1017 55 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

These are the principles which are affirmed in this Resolution, leaving the actual 
solution of our constitutional problem to be dealt with hereafter. Those are the prin- 
ciples which are affirmed here, and I heartily endorse them and give my adhesion to 
this Resolution as it stands here. 

Sir Edward Morris : I should like to add my support to this Resolution. I would 
like to say that, through the courtesy of Sir Robert Borden, I have had an Oppor- 
tunity of carefully studying the nature of the Resolution, and I think it would be wise, 
probably, at the present time not to go beyond this Resolution. Certainly this is not 
the time to discuss any changes in connection with the relations which exist be- 
tween the Dominions and the Mother Country, and I think the proposal to postpone 
the further consideration to another Conference rather a good one. 

It appears to me that the position before the War was this : All the Dominions 
had complete autonomy, even practically to the question of Treaty making, and if they 
were not consulted and had no part in the question of defence and in the question of 
foreign relations, it was because they did not contribute. The whole cost of running 
the Empire from a defence standpoint and from the foreign relations standpoint, and 
everything in relation to the acquisition of new territories and new States for the 
Empire, was accomplished out of the Imperial Exchequer. But in all other matters 
the Colonies as they have been termed, the Dominions, have enjoyed the full benefits 
and advantages of responsible Government, and that has been year after year broad- 
ened out. The question then comes whether these scattered Dominions, these wide-, 
flung possessions, can be brought closer together from a constitutional point of view. 
This Resolution does not call upon us to consider that question. We are here now 
taking part in the proceedings of the Imperial War Cabinet, and we have been invited 
here to take part in the discussion of the terms of peace, principally, I take it, in con- 
sideration of the part which the Dominions have taken in this War. Whether it 
would be wise to alter this Resolution by Mr. Massey's suggestion to continue the pre- 
sent system would require, I think, a good deal of discussion and consideration, be- 
cause, after all, whilst we are advising in relation to these serious problems in con- 
nection with the terms of peace and the carrying on of the War, we have no consti- 
tutional power to bind the Parliaments that we represent. . I do not mean by that to 
say that the various Parliaments in the various Oversea Dominions would not gladly 
endorse anything that might be done here. It all comes down to the mere question of 
finding some machinery which in a permanent and responsible form will continue 
what is now being done by the War Cabinet, if that is desirable. 

In the past Conferences, some of which i have had tne advantage of taking part in 
myself, this very question came up about an Imperial Parliament and an Imperial 
Council, but there were always very grave difficulties in the way of establishing any- 
thing of a permanent character, and it seems to me now that this Resolution whilst, 
as General Smuts has very wisely pointed out, it affirms, if necessary, the present posi- 
tion of the Dominions as regards- their authority and autonomy and control over their 
own affairs, leaves it open to some future Conference to discuss the possibilities of 
having some machinery in the nature of consultation to deal with questions of foreign 
policy and the defence of the Empire. 

I was very glad that Sir Robert Borden in his opening remarks referred to the 
position to-day of this country in its relation to the monarchy, especially in view of 
the changes which are taking place in other countries. Some of us who live near 
republican institutions and have had opportunities of studying others, I think will 
agree that the monarchs in this country, at least the late Queen Victoria and King 
Edward as well as the present monarch, have made it possible for us, whilst admiring 
some of the principles in republican institutions, to still continue to believe in the 
wisdom of monarchical institutions. One thing it gives us, at least, and that is an 
appeal. Every subject has an appeal to the Chief Magistrate of the land, who is not 
a party-politician and who is not placed in the position he holds by any party or by the 
funds of any party, but stands as the representative of all, and rarely in this country 



56 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

interferes in any matters except in the interest of the public and as between the public 
and the legislators. For that reason I have very much pleasure in supporting the 
Resolution as proposed, with the slight amendment which I understand is to be proposed 
later in relation to the great Government of India. 

Sir Satyendra Sinha: Sir, I should like, while supporting this Resolution, 
to make what I consider to be a merely verbal alteration, because I am certain that it 
could not be intentionally meant to exclude India, especially after the Resolution 
which this Conference has already passed. I therefore propose that we should add 
to the Resolution, in the second paragraph, after the words " upon a full recognition 
of the Dominions as autonomous nations of an Imperial Commonwealth," the 
words "and of India as an important portion of the same." The Resolution was 
drafted, of course, with special reference to the Self-governing Dominions, but, as I 
said, it could not have been intended to exclude India from participation in the 
arrangements which are recommended for the purpose of representation in foreign 
policy and in foreign relations. The foreign policy and the foreign relations of the 
Empire are to a very large extent concerned with India, and, therefore, it is only 
right that India should be represented in all consultations for the purpose of dealing 
with such foreign policy and foreign relations. As a corollary to that amendment I 
propose another consequential one, namely, that instead of the words " should 
recognise their right to an adequate voice in foreign policy and in foreign 
relations," in order to make it perfectly clear we should say "in order to recognise 
the . right of the Dominions and of India to an adequate voice in foreign policy," 
and so on. It is with some diffidence that I address the Conference and ask for this 
amendment to be made, but I do so principally on the assurance that it is bound to be 
acceptable, having regard to the attitude of the Conference already with regard 
to India. 

I do not desire to take up the time of the Conference with anything further, 
except to say that I wish to associate myself on behalf of India with the sentiments 
that Sir Robert Borden expressed with regard to the monarchy. India has in a 
peculiar degree a sense of loyalty to the person and throne of the monarch in 
England, and it would, therefore, give the greatest satisfaction to my countrymen 
that this Conference should unequivocally express its declaration that the monarchical 
form of government, as it is, is the best suited to the requirements of the Empire. 

Sir Robert Borden: Mr. Chairman, I merely want to say that, so far as 
India is concerned, I accept most willingly the proposed amendment, and I am very 
happy to do so. Indeed, through the presence of the Secretary of 'State for India in 
the British Cabinet, India already has had perhaps a greater voice in foreign relations 
than the Overseas Dominions. It would seem entirely appropriate, therefore, that 
the Resolution should receive this amendment, and I have no doubt, under the 
circumstances, it does not amount to more than a verbal amendment. We 
hope to come into a new relation with the Mother Country, which will give us 
a voice that has been wanting in the past so far as we are concerned, and which, 
for the reasons I have mentioned, India has perhaps enjoyed to a certain extent. 

Might I just say one word with regard to the proposed amendment suggested by 
Mr. Massey? I do not know whether or not that may be necessary. If there 
should be an announcement, as I understood there would be, by the Prime Minister 
of the United Kingdom that the present arrangement with regard to the Imperial 
Cabinet will be continued until the end of the War at least, I have no doubt that 
he might be willing but, of course, I am not sure about this to include in his 
announcement the proposal that it will be continued until the Conference which 
is to be summoned has reached its conclusions. Perhaps the chairman of the Confer- 
ence will be able to tell us whether or not it is probable that some such announce- 
ment will be made. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 57 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Chairman: I think it better to reserve that until Thursday, when the 
Prime Minister will make his own statement, as it may not he quite right to 
anticipate the statement which he will make. I would suggest that the wider 
extension, if it be a wider extension, on that point should be left until Thursday, 
rather than added to this particular Resolution. After Thursday we can raise it 
again in the Conference, if necessary. 

Mr. Massey: I am quite willing that this point should stand over. Whether 
the Prime Minister makes that announcement or not (it is to be hoped, after what 
you have said, that he will), I think we, as representatives of the Dominions, should 
express our appreciation of the very 'important change which has been made. I 
leave the matter for the present. 

Sir Robert Borden : We could, if necessary, pass a distinct Resolution. 

Chairman: I will now put the Resolution as amended. I understand the 
Prime Minister of Canada accepts the amendment, in which case it would run 
after the word " Commonwealth " " of an Imperial Commonwealth and of India as 
an important portion of the same." The next amendment is to leave out the words 
''their right" in the following line in order to insert the words "the right of the 
Dominions and of India." 

Mr. Massey: I do not know whether this is the proper time for me to raise 
the other point. 

Sir Joseph Ward : I want to speak on the main question. 

Mr. Massey: I do not think we have stuck strictly to the proper order in 
these proceeding, and, I think, properly so. With regard to making the Con- 
ference more representative, is that the time for me to raise it or should that 
stand over until after the formal Debate is concluded? 

Chairman: If you want to move an amendment to this Resolution, would 
it not be convenient to carry this Resolution in its present form, as amended to 
include India, and then discuss as a separate question, if necessary, the constitution 
of any future Conference? 

General Smuts : That is a separate question. 

Mr. Massey: Very well, so long as it is understood that I" propose to raise 
it, that is all I care about. 

Chairman : Certainly. 

Mr. Massey: And that it will not have in any way lessened its chance of 
being agreed to by being held over. 

Chairman : Oh, no. Now, Sir Joseph Ward wants to make some remarks. 

Sir Joseph Ward: I want to say a word or two on this very important 
matter, Mr. Long. This Resolution in itself .is of extreme importance, but it 
proposes to defer the consideration of this question, as an indication that if there 
had not been a great war raging it would have been considered, it is not going to 
have what I would call a directing effect upon any men who may come to the 
next Conference, it is important because it affirms the desirability of a special Con- 
ference to deal with the matter after the war. I do not want in the least to derogate 
from the importance of what Sir Robert Borden has done, which was excellently 
supported by him in his remarks, and I recognize that his explanation of the matter 
■vas very clear. I am one of those who do not regard this question of autonomy, 
which has been raised from time to time, as of any importance from the point of 
view of its being interfered with. It is not possible for anybody to interfere with the 
self-government of any of the oversea countries, or the power of local autonomy 
which they possess, unless the people in each of these self-governing countries, 
through their Governments, do it themselves; and in the discussion of any system 



58 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

winch might be created with a view to governing Empire matters, not the internal 
affairs of the Empire, as I infer from General Smnts's remarks he fears, but the 
overriding vital Empire matters that the local Governments cannot deal effectively 
with their own account and of their own action, I regard the proposals as of 
supreme importance from the point of view of having some organization in existence 
that is going to be able to do the things that the individiial countries cannot do 
tbemselves. 

As a representative man, I for one would not be a party to anything done at any 
Imperial Conference which would in the least interfere with the legislative powers 
of the respective portions of the Empire either fiscally, for taxation purposes, or for 
local internal defence purposes. I would not be a party to that, and so far as it was 
in my power in my own country I would move heaven and earth to stop the people 
from being committed to any course that would bring about such a result; and it 
has not been suggested at this Conference that anything of the kind should be done. 
1 would do all in my power to prevent the people from being committed to a line . 
of action which would in the least abrogate their rights through their representatives 
of doing anything and everything in connection with the local affairs of their 
country that they have the power to do now, and that power should not be 
weakened in the slightest possible degree. 

I want, while subscribing absolutely to the proposal here, to put on record 
that there should be no interference with the local autonomy of the oversea 
countries. I say that no power on earth except themselves and of their own free will 
can do so; the British Parliament cannot do it. No one can interfere with the local 
autonomy of South Africa, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, or any other portion of 
the self-governing Dominions unless they each separately so decide. That power 
remains under the Constitutions which they have within the rights of their own 
representatives and of their own people, and no British Government could move in 
the direction of weakening the power of local autonomy or self-government of any 
one of those countries unless they were asked in a proper constitutional way by the 
Governments of those countries to do so. 

In discussing any future system which may be created for the purpose of dealing 
with the rapidly changing conditions within the Empire, we ought not to allow 
it to go on record and to allow sensitive or nervous people (and there are millions 
of them in the world, unhappily) to have the impression that in any future constructive 
machine which may be created we are going to weaken the powers which any portion 
of the Self-governing Dominions possesses now, because we are not, and I want to 
make that position perfectly clear. Having said this, I am not going to deal with the 
bogey of local autonomy any further on this* occasion. 

I do not believe it is possible for the development that is going on in the British 
Empire to continue satisfactorily unless there is a material change made by those who 
are responsible both in this country and in all the oversea countries upon two matters 
particularly. Those two matters stand out as of the first consequence. If they were 
not required to be provided for, there would be no need whatever for having an 
Empire Parliament or an Empire Council or representation from any of the oversea 
countries in an Imperial War Cabinet at the heart of the Empire at all. Those are 
the two vital questions of foreign policy and of naval defence. I may hold a different 
cninion to any other member of this Conference on one point to which. I wish to 
allude, but I would oppose with all the power I possess in our portion of the Empire 
any interference whatever with our right to raise and to control our own system of 
internal defence. I do not look upon it as an essential for the future government of 
the British Empire that any overriding authority created constitutionally should 
either have the right, or be given the power, to interfere with the creation of a local 
army or armies that may, either now or in the future, be required to be raised in any 
portion of the Self-governing Dominions, either for their own internal defence or for 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 59 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

that part of external defence, by co-operation in times of Empire trouble or Empire 
requirements with the British army abroad. I do not look upon it as a necessity, or 
even as desirable, that any power should be transferred from the respective Govern- 
ments to the central Government which would give them the least right to interfere 
with the control and disposition of the men who are raised for army purposes within 
the respective portions of the British Empire. Now I say that for this reason. 
"Unless those who are responsible for sketching the proposed Constitution, even 
although it may be of a loose nature, at some future Conference or future Confer- 
ences — because I do not believe for a single moment that this is going to be settled at 
one Conference — are prepared to recognise that, I do not believe it is possible in 
practice for any of those oversea countries to give away the power of controlling 
their own land forces to any Empire Council or any Empire Parliament or any 
Imperial War Cabinet even with representatives upon that War Cabinet from any 
part of the British Empire. That must rest entirely with the local Government both 
iu Britain and in each of the Oversea Dominions. s There is also the question, and you 
cannot get away from it, in this country and in all parts of the Empire, of pride in the 
individuality of the men who form the army in the respective parts of the Empire, 
and there is nothing in the wide world can remove the sentimental power attached to 
that feeling. If it were not to-day for the feeling of pride that the Canadians have 
in their men, that -the South Africans have in their men, that the Australians have in 
their men, that the New Zealanders have in their men, that the Indians have in their 
men, that the Pacific Islanders have in their men, and that the. Crown Colonies have 
in their men individually, you would not have that powerful direct incentive to their 
creation (and sending to foreign lands) of powerful armies to be accessories to the 
fine, powerful, courageous, British Tommies that in co-operation with the others are 
helping with our Allies to maintain our very existence at this moment. 

If there was a proposal carried at a succeeding Conference to include local 
land defence, and to put the power of framing a concrete army for Empire purposes 
under an Empire Parliament, I personally would strongly oppose it in our country, 
and would do everything in my power to prevent it coming into operation, because 
I believe it would be a very undesirable thing to do. It would be one of the first 
things that would impress the people in these countries with the feeling to which 
General Smuts gave expression. While all belong to one common Empire, there 
are different races; there are different ideals permeating the minds of the people in 
the different portions of the Empire. If the feeling were implanted in the minds 
of even the coloured races in some of the oversea countries that the power of dealing 
with the army was going to be transferred in some way to a central authority, however 
necessary it may be to have a central authority created, then, in my opinion, we would 
commence to have a backward wave set in against any proposal in the direction 
of . doing what is otherwise essential for .the future preservation and for the future 
solidarity of the Empire as a whole. I want to make it quite clear that whatever 
may require to be done as soon as possible after the cessation of hostilities, to which 
Sir Robert Borden in his speech has referred, there ought to be a clear under- 
standing expressed by this Conference, so that we may have an opportunity in our 
own country if the need arises of discussing it before another Conference takes place. 
There should be an indication given by this Conference as to what it is intended that 
we should come to a round table to consider, at a future Conference, and such 
could be handed over to any organization, be it a loose or even a constituted one. 
In my opinion Mr. Long, unless there is some common understanding about that, 
we are going back to our respective countries with only the general idea which exists, 
as Mr. Massey has pointed out, in speeches, pamphlets and books where there are 
all sorts of ideas which have been given expression to by different people regarding 
this matter. We shall be going back practically in a state of generalisation without 
being able to give the least indication to anyone of what it is the next Conference is 



60 . IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

to be called upon to consider in connection with this all-important matter. But 
for the exigencies of the situation at the present moment, due to this great War, 
this horrible War, but for the impossibility of members of the British Cabinet, 
particularly, and of the Oversea Dominions representatives too, because they have to 
get back to their countries concentrating their attention on any other subject but 
the War ; but for the needs of all the different nations and the necessity for their 
devoting their attention wholly and solely to war matters and to winning the War, 
this matter should be considered now. There is nothing standing out of greater 
importance at the present moment than the consideration of such proposals as 
Sir Kobert Borden has indicated for the purpose of maturing them to some extent, 
because when they are matured to the extent of being carried at a Conference or 
Conferences, or at a Convention or Conventions, they have then to go back, both to 
the British Parliament and to the respective Oversea Parliaments to be considered 
and. ratified in each of these places; in fact, in all probability they will have to be 
sent to the people before the Parliaments can finally decide what is to be done with 
regard to any material alteration in the future constitutional organization of the 
Empire. In my opinion, a conference in dealing with the readjustment of the 
Empire, should deal in the main with two great cardinal matters, namely, Foreign 
Policy and Naval Defence and how to provide for the -finance without giving the 
power of taxation to any authority excepting the local parliament in each part of the 
Empire. 

I make these observations because I regard them as of sufficient importance for 
me to express my opinion upon them now! I want to direct the attention of this 
Conference to a position that may and must arise. If you expect to have any 
success from any decisions which may be arrived at at any future Conference, you 
must have unanimity, you must have at least the good feeling and the general support 
of all the important countries that will have representation at a future Conference 
and to get that -each important political party should be represented. Now I want 
to call attention to this fact because it is probably more a matter for you, Sir, to 
consider in the Becess after this Conference rises, and it certainly will require to be 
known in all our countries: How are they going to vote when they come to this 
Conference— that is, men who are not members of the Government? It is right 
under existing conditions that countries should vote individually; that is, I think, the 
right course to pursue. But that will not exist when you have, as I think ought to 
be the case, men of the respective political parties coming from such enormous 
distances to go into the merits of the question who will not have a vote. That is 
not going to suit the representatives of the different parties here. For instance, 
if you had the Leader of the Opposition from Canada or Australia or any of the 
other Oversea Dominions, what are they going to do? Are they to remain at the 
Conference table without a vote? If you tell them they are to remain at the Confer- 
ence table without a vote, they will not come. If you have the Leaders of the 
Opposition — and they ought to be here — from all portions of the Empire, including 
Great Britain, coming to a Conference for the purpose of considering matters of the 
most vital character to the people whom they represent and are expected to represent, 
then you are going to raise the question whether they are to be practically rendered 
dummies, exicept in words, from recording their opinions by voting upon matters 
material to the future of the Empire as a whole, and to their respective parts of the 
Empire, owing to the fact that existing conditions prevent them from having a vote. 
You might under those circumstances have carried at this Conference by a bare 
majority a Resolution which could never be put into _effect in the countries concerned 
because if a strong and powerful minority determined not to give effect to what a 
small or bare majority had decided here, it would be absurd to suppose it would be 
agreed to in their own countries unless there was to a very large extent common 
assent. I want to endorse what Sir Robert Borden and Mr. Massey said on that 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 61 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

point — I do not know whether General Smuts referred to it, for the moment, but I 
think he did not nor did Sir Edward Morris. If there is going to be what we all 
want, results achieved and good work produced from the next 'Conference, to which 
this Resolution is referred, then I personally am of opinion that the Leaders of the 
respective parties, unless they wish not to have the opportunity, should be here as 
well as the members of the Governments of the different countries. I think unless 
something of that kind was done it would be a herculean task for the Govern- 
ments of the respective countries to expect to have cordiality or approbation or to 
remove friction. 

Let me at once say that I am a strong advocate of an Imperial Parliament. 
I have studied the matter from every aspect, and I have considered it for very nearly 
thirty years, and I believe that if you want to prevent a weakening of the Empire in 
the years to come, and to have that growth of population to which Sir Robert Borden 
in his opening remarks rightly referred — if you want to have the growing populations 
in the oversea countries content — you must give them some voice in these matters 
with which alone an Imperial Parliament should have the right to deal. Those 
matters are — foreign policy, the right to have a say as to whether the people are 
to be plunged into war; the right to have a say in the terms of peace, and the right 
to have a say in what cannot be taken away from the Empire as a whole so long 
as it remains an Empire — the naval power necessary to meet the requirements of an 
Empire that is dependent entirely upon sea power for its existence. The details of 
the cost of maintaining a Foreign Office, or the attendant cost for upholding either 
of those two matters, would in the ordinary course of things require to come in. 
Still, I cannot for the life of me see (and I have considered it from every standpoint) 
how you are going to give any authority to a representative upon a Council, or to 
a member of a War Cabinet, to bind the millions of people in the oversea countries 
and in India (which I am very proud indeed to see included in this Resolution). 
I do not believe you will have a feeling of contentment, of rest, for many years 
in any of the Oversea Dominions or in the great Indian Empire, until you have 
some properly constituted Imperial Parliament with well-defined powers of dealing 
with those Empire matters to which I have just referred, the Imperial Empire 
matters, if one may use the term. There can be no question whatever of any 
interference with the power of each part of the Dominions — and of India, I hope, in 
the years to come — of having in their local parliaments the right to do whatever they 
think necessary for the benefit of their own people. As a matter of fact, Sir Robert 
Borden gave utterance to an expression with which I fully concur (I cannot repeat 
it word for word but it was to this effect), that he believed that as the development 
of the oversea countries takes place there should be a growing equality of nationhood — 
that is what I understood him to say. 

Sir Robert Borden : Equality of nationhood. 

Sir Joseph Ward: A growing equality of nations applicable equally to the 
Dominions as well as to the Homeland. I endorse that, and I agree with that 
sentiment absolutely. In practice, how are you going to put it into operation? 
Mr. Long, let me for one brief moment say what passes through my mind as I see 
the position and as I think it will develop in this country. I am not interfering 
with any of the domestic concerns of the Old Land when I allude to it. I have not 
attempted at any time to interfere with the domestic affairs of the Old Land on my 
visits to England while holding an official position, and I do not propose to do so 
now. But as part and parcel of the Empire we have to take into consideration what 
is going on here in so far as it is calculated to affect the whole Empire.. Now what is 
Great Britain on the verge of doing? We see it in the public Press, we hear it from 
public men, and we hear it from the authority of the British Government. The British 
Government have agreed to materially change the franchise of the people in .the 
United Kingdom. Among other changes women are to have a conditional vote. Does 



62 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

not that, at least indirectly, affect us people in the Oversea Dominions? Do we not 
realize that in the alterations which are being made here they are widening and broad- 
ening the whole basis upon which the Mother of Parliaments, in the House of Commons 
at present, rests, and that you are going to give wider power to men and to women in 
tbis country than they have ever had before? With the widening of that power to men 
and to women in this country, would it not be suicidal for any of us to believe that 
they are not going to throw still greater work upon the House of Commons than they 
have ever thrown upon it before? Our experience in the oversea countries, where we 
have evolved from a limited franchise to universal suffrage, has shown us all (and in 
practice it will be the same here) that the widening of the franchise, especially with 
the providing of a vote for women (even although it may be limited in this country), 
is going to throw upon the parliamentary machinery that has to carry out the work 
for the United Kingdom and Ireland, and the whole of the Empire work connected 
with the oversea countries as it stands at present, a greater burden of work than it 
can stand. If you throw an additional burden of work on the existing machinery 
here, then I want to know what prospective chances your own kith and kin in the 
oversea countries have of having purely Empire matters expeditiously dealt with. 
It is notorious that the machinery of the House of Commons has been clogged and 
. has been inadequate for years. We all- recognize that an immense amount of good 
has been done and an immense amount of assistance has been given to the oversea 
countries by the respective Governments of this country. We all recognize that at 
least for a good many years all the oversea countries have had the kindly ear of mem- 
bers of the House of Commons and of members of the House of Lords. But however 
well the work may have been done in the past, and however good the intentions may 
have been of those responsible in the past, in surveying the situation as it now exists 
in which we are deeply concerned and in which we are going to be more vitally con- 
cerned after this War is over as to what you are going to do for the government of the 
Empire, we cannot shut our eyes to the changes that are taking place in this Old 
World. I want to say — thotigh I' may hold this opinion alone, but I do hold it and I 
am going to" express it — that unless the people in the Old Country, with whose future 
action we are vitally concerned, recognize that their machinery here is not compe- 
tent to carry on the work of the Empire and of the Homeland at the same time, I do 
not believe that we will ever have satisfactory Government for dealing with these impor- 
tant Imperial Empire matters which is necessary for the future holding together of 
the oversea countries with the Homeland. I do not believe you will ever have it 
until you make up your mind that you are going to have an Empire Federal Parlia- 
ment. In all probability the House of Lords and the House of Commons' will remain 
for doing the work of your own people here, but there will have to be some alteration 
by which every section of people in the British Isles, including the English, the Irish, 
the Scotch and the Welsh, have got their separate Parliaments for their own local 
internal affairs, just as we have our separate Parliaments for our local and internal 
affairs, kept clear of these absolutely necessitous requirements of attending to the 
all-important Imperial Empire matters which mean the safety of the Empire as a 
whole and the keeping of it together. Each portion of the British Isles and thoseof 
the Oversea Dominions having representation in an Empire Parliament to deal with 
those matters common to and vital to the Empire as a whole. You are not going to 
get the work done with the clogged machinery under existing conditions. We are 
not getting it now, and you are not going to get it in the future until the time arrives 
when the United Kingdom of its own accord without any interference from the Over- 
sea Dominions settles its own form of constitution within the British ^Isles. Until 
Britain has what I call Eeconstruction at home— and the oversea countries look upon 
it as " home "—until the responsible people governing this country and the rank and 
file of the men in the Parliament of this country, and the rank and file of the people 
behind and outside the Parliament of this country, recognize that the present machi- 
nery which was so valuable in giving us ourvConstitutions and helping us to effect 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 63 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

the colonization which has been so valuable to the Homeland itself is changed because 
of the changing conditions which have been going on in the last fifteen or twenty 
years, unless they realize the changes are of such a nature that they cannot hope to 
give satisfaction either to their own people here or to our people abroad, until in some 
form or another they make up their mind that they will reconstruct at home, then and 
then only will there be any base upon which you will be able to raise a structure for the 
Empire that is going to keep the Empire for the English, the Irish, the Scotch and the 
Welsh, the South Africans, the Indians, and for all the people of the other dependen- 
cies of the Empire. I hold these views and I feel that the freedom which has charac- 
terized all the meetings of this Conference warrants me in saying what I have on this 
important matter. I do not think you will be able to deal with the British Navy, or 
rather with the Empire Navy, satisfactorily until you have some Empire Eederal 
authority, with proper representation from each national portion of the British Isles 
and of all the Oversea Dominions upon it, where the people in the respective parts of 
the Empire can have the continuous right, in peace time and in war time, of having 
a true representation of the people so as to ensure them a voice and say in those 
Empire concerns vital for the protection of all parts of the Empire. 

I do not want to further elaborate the matter of the Navy. I feel limited in many 
observations I might otherwise make because of one thing which I think is a govern- 
ing factor and has to b,e recognized by me, aud that is, that, until we know what the 
British Admiralty consider desirable in connection with the Navy, it is premature to 
discuss in what way it should be administered under any alteration which may be 
found necessary after the War to make. Therefore I propose to say no more upon 
that. I have made these remarks on the question of an Empire Parliament because 
I am" of opinion that they do not present insuperable difficulties. I hold the opinion 
that events which will come along with great rapidity, if they do not force the hands 
of us who are now ruling in our respective countries, will, because of the necessities 
of both the Motherland and the outlying portions of the Empire, bring it up for 
consideration at an .earlier period than perhaps any of us imagine at the present 
moment. 

Having expressed my opinion upon that point, I want to say that I fully recog- 
nize that there is a gap, and a pretty wide gap, which must exist until something 
has been decided in the future as to what the system of the Empire Government or 
Empire Parliament, or whatever it is, is to be. I know it cannot be hurried or forced 
before it is ripe for settlement. In the interval the gap has, in my opinion, to be bridged, 
and I believe it can and should only be bridged temporarily. There are evolutions 
which are going on in the great Indian Empire which we all recognize, and the time 
has not yet arrived when they know what the length of the gap between the present 
and the future system will be as far as they are concerned. There are none of us here 
who know what the length of the gap is to be. The present unsatisfactory system is 
really no system except one of powerful goodwill which has done such an immense 
amount to help the Empire as a whole in all its undertakings either in war or other- 
wise. In the interval there has to be something done to fill that gap which exists, 
and I am exceedingly sorry that that apparently is not going to be settled at this 
Conference. I believe, with Sir Robert Borden and Mr. Massey and with other speak- 
ers, that the change brought about by the goodwill of the Prime Minister of this 
country and his colleagues of inviting the representatives of the Oversea Dominions 
to the War Cabinet is a tremendous step forward. It appeals to the imagination of 
the people all over the Empire. It is not an imaginary appeal in the ordinary sense 
of the term that is being made to them; it is a practical anneal from the standpoint 
of consultation with the British controllers of the destinies of the Empire, which after 
all, is the British Government. It gives us the opportunity of consultation, and that 
has appealed to the hearts of the people all over the British Empire, and in that respect 
it has in my opinion, been a tremendous step forward. As I understood from 
Mr. Long that the Prime Minister is going to make some statement on the matter, I 



64 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

will only say that in my opinion, in some suitable way, there ought to be represen- 
tation of the , oversea countries in the British Cabinet of this country. How that 
representation is to be created it is not for me to say, but I want to express the opinion 
that, if it is to be what is called itinerary representation by any man of responsibility 
from any of the oversea countries, such a man could not be expected to come to this 
country for three, six or twelve months and then to go back again and to come over 
here again for three, or .six or twelve months, however well intentioned and full of 
goodwill he might be. In my opinion you will not get any man of any strong stand- 
ing from any of the respective countries to do that. The work would require the very 
best man you can get; but if you are going to fill the position in a sort of itinerary 
way, and make it a position which is going to be regarded from the point of view of 
the Empire as a whole as one, putting tremendous responsibilities upon an individual, 
whoever he may be, then I do not think there are very many people from any parts 
of the Empire, except for the purpose of appealing to their own individual ambition 
. (which is a factor, of course), who would accept the right to occupy a position of that 
kind, and I do not think it would be fair to ask them to fill such an itinerary position. 
I have no doubt, however, that whatever personal sacrifice or inconvenience any one 
may be put to will be readily done. I am looking forward with considerable interest 
to what may be suggested about this most important matter. 

Chairman: I do not want to raise any false hopes. I only referred to the state- 
ment made by the Prime Minister that the fuller Resolutions were going to be dis- 
cussed on Thursday. 

Sir Joseph Ward: Do you mean here? 

Chairman: No, in the War Cabinet. 

Sir Joseph Ward: I understand. I do not for one moment desire to put you in 
the position of having committed yourself to anything, I do not wish that to be 
understood at all; I only meant that I was looking forward with interest to hear what- 
ever statement might be made on this important matter after it has been considered 
in another place. At all events, this Resolution of Sir Robert Borden's receives my 
personal very hearty support, because, at least, if the Resolution here put on record 
by the present members of the Conference conveys anything, it conveys a distinct 
suggestion that between now and the next Conference after the War there should be 
some effort made to formulate something that may be brought up at that Conference 
with a view to "its being dealt with, and in that respect I think this Resolution is timely 
and will do a considerable amount of good. 

As we are passing through quite extraordinary times, I want to make sure that 
there is no misunderstanding, so far as I am concerned as a representative, upon that 
point of attachment to the Monarch of this country in the high and responsible posi- 
tion he holds. What appeals to me is the fact that some of the Continental thrones 
are tottering from a position of autocracy into one of the people ruling. What strikes 
me about it is that the reflex that we get upon our own Homeland with the King as 
the head of the monarchy, is entirely in favour of the continuance of a monarchy in 
this country. It does bring into striking relief — and in the far-flung young nations 
attached to the Empire as a whole it is as strongly felt as in the heart of the Empire, 
if not more s.o — the fact that the constitution of this country relieves the Monarch 
from being put into the position of an autocrat similar to those monarchical autocrats 
who have plunged the world into the present horrible War. One thing is certain, our 
beloved King was in no way responsible for the starting of the great war now raging. 
It make us recognize more and more that it is the Monarch's constitutional advisers 
here who alone are responsible for the policy as between them and the people. If the 
conditions were similar to the conditions that exist in Russia and in Germany, and in 
some other countries which one need not name, it might have created in the minds of 
the peoples both here and in the oversea countries particularly, who have never seen 
and may never see this country, a very different feeling from their deep and abiding 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 65 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a i 

attachment to the monarchical system which rules in this country. Within my recol- 
lection I have never seen any attempt in the direction of autocracy exhibited by the 
three Monarchs in whose reigns I have lived and served under as a Minister of the 
Crown in a distant part of the Empire, which would engender any spirit of ill-will 
towards the system which they have so successfully and so nobly filled during the time 
they have been at the head of the monarchy. As one of the representatives from one 
of the young oversea countries, I want to add my words of testimony to those expressed 
by Sir Robert Borden, Mr. Massey, General Smuts, Sir Edward Morris, and the 
representative of India, of endorsing that fine feeling, particularly at this juncture, 
that exists towards His Majesty the King and his most Gracious Consort the Queen. 
So that while there are some people who may be imbued with notions of prospective 
changes in connection with our system here, all I can say is that my belief is that the 
oversea countries would stand shoulder to shoulder with the Motherland for the pre- 
servation of the monarchical system under which they have developed so wonderfully. 
Britain is the only successful colonizing country of any importance in the world, and 
under that system to which I have just referred they have been unfettered by the 
Monarch and allowed to do practically, within the limits of reason, whatever they 
liked in the matter of legislation, and, therefore, they would not wish to see any change 
in any direction whatever. 

Let me just say,, in conclusion, that Sir Robert Borden in, his speech upon this 
matter showed, very conclusively that something requires to be done in the future, and 
the future alone can really provide~what is going to be done in this matter. I hazard 
the opinion, as one of the public men in a far-off country, that this matter of read- 
justment of the constitution stands out, to my mind, as of such stupendous importance 
that if it is necessary to have one Conference or two Conferences, or one Convention 
or two Conventions, or more, as this Resolution says " as soon as possible after the 
cessation of hostilities " it certainly ought to be taken in hand. I do believe with Sir 
Robert Borden — and I want to emphasize this — that the Conference to consider it 
ought to be a thoroughly representative gathering of public men from the Oversea 
Dominions holding responsible positions. May I say that we have never yet had any 
test by our respective Parliaments on any important matter from the Imperial Con- 
ference regarding reconstruction of the Empire; but such a test we shall have when 
one Resolution is carried into effect that proposes to make some fundamental change 
in the Constitutional Government of the Empire. I say that when we do get a Reso- 
lution passed that requires to be carried by our Parliaments and endorsed by our 
people, it is essential to have the goodwill of every section of powerful parties as such 
a Conference or Convention as is going to deal with an alteration which for genera- 
tions to come will in all probability be the law, although, unlike the laws of the Medes 
and Persians, it will be alterable and flexible at the will of the people who make it. 
All the same, it will affect the future destinies of the countries to such an extent 
that, however inconvenient, no inconvenience on the part either of the Oversea Domin- 
ions representatives or of the Home representatives should be allowed to stand in the 
way of representatives of the leading political parties coming together and setting to 
work to consider seriously the question of the Government, not upon matters affecting 
the internal affairs of the Empire, but on those points which are common to all. I 
agree with Mr. Massey, that when we get to the point of having to consider how the 
financial part can be arranged for dealing with these overriding Empire matters, that 
it can be satisfactorily done beyond all doubt without interfering with the local finan- 
cial requirements of the respective Governments ; and there is no Government, in my 
opinion, will transfer its power of taxation to any Imperial Parliament or to any 
Empire Government. For the Empire purposes to which I have alluded for the pro- 
tection of the Empire, whatever they are, when each Government is asked to provide 
the means, the Governments of the respective countries must have the authority of 
their own Parliaments, with the consent of their own people, but they will never allow 

42a— 5 



66 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

any distant central organization to have the power of double taxation, however limited 
the power of the central authority in that respect may be, or for any purpose of 
taking it out of the hands of the respective Governments for carrying on any of these 
Empire matters. 

This is a matter which one might, upon various other aspects, discuss at con- 
siderable further length, but I have taken the opportunity of stating my views on 
one or two points, as I feel, from the importance of the subject, that I should have 
been wanting in the performance of my duty to my country, and indeed to the Empire, 
had I not done so. 

Sir Robert Borden : I should like, if I may, to correct any misapprehension 
which may have arisen on the observations I made in opening. I have not had any 
communication with Mr. Lloyd George respecting the matter, but I have gathered 
the impression — I do not know whether it was from an authoritative source or not — 
that he was prepared to carry out, or to recommend at least, an arrangement by 
which Overseas Ministers who were able to be present here in London should be 
summoned to meetings of the Imperial War Cabinet during the progress of the War. 

I entirely agree that the step recently taken is a very important advance, because 
there is but one 'Grown, but there are many nations within the Empire, and the 
Crown in its relation to any Dominion acts upon the advice of the duly constituted 
Government or Cabinet of that Dominion. The Crown at present acts upon the advice 
of a Cabinet in all Imperial matters, which includes not only Ministers responsible 
to the British Parliament but also those responsible to the Parliaments and Govern- 
ments of the respective Dominions so far as they are represented here. The 
conventions of the Constitution are really its foundation; where there are no written 
Constitutions, almost everything depends upon convention. The great influence of 
conventions, even upon a written Constitution, may be observed from what has taken 
place in the United States, where the original terms of their Constitution have been 
modified by convention in the most remarkable manner and in more than one respect. 
So I attach importance to the beginning of what may become an established conven- 
tion in the government of this Empire. I also entirely agree with what has been 
said as to the importance of the principle we are affirming in this Resolution. I do 
regard it as a very important advance. The matters to which Sir Joseph Ward has 
directed our attention are of great importance, but many of them seem to me to 
be matters rather for the consideration of the Conference to be called than matters 
which we can properly or effectively consider to-day. I agree thoroughly also that 
the British democracy to-day is as advanced and progressive and perfect a democracy 
as can be found anywhere in the world. By " British democracy " I mean the 
system of government which prevails in the United Kingdom and in the Self-governing 
Dominions. In that system the King is the head of no party, but he is the head of 
the united democracies of the Empire. 

I entirely agree with General Smuts that, according to the form of the Con- 
stitution at present, the conditions are as he suggests. It is to be observed, however, 
that constitutional writers draw a sharp distinction between legal power and 
constitutional right. The British Parliament has technically the legal power to 
repeal the British North America Act — taking our Dominion as an illustration. But 
there is no constitutional right to do so without our assent, and therefore, while there 
is the theory of predominance, there is not the constitutional right of predominance 
in practice even at present. Questions, however, do arise with regard to it from 
time to time. We have had, even since the War began, a question as to the exercise 
of the prerogative, and a question as to the advice upon which the prerogative under- 
certain conditions shall be exercised — upon the advice of the Government of the 
United Kingdom, or upon the advice of the Government of Canada? Doubtless, 
under present conditions, questions of that kind are occasionally arising, but upon 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 67 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

the basis which is established by this Resolution they are less likely to arise in the 
future. , [ . i. 

I am very glad that the Resolution has commended itself to the members of 
the Conference, and I earnestly hope that the result of the Conference which is to 
be summoned will be all that we can hope. 

Chairman : I do not think it is necessary for me to say more than a 
word or two to the Conference. Of course, it must be obvious from the terms 
of the Resolution, as well as from the remarks that have been addressed to us 
by various members, that had this Conference been assembled under ordinary 
circumstances, a Resolution of this importance would have been discussed with the 
Prime Minister of the Government here at home presiding, and, no doubt, with the 
presence also of some high officers of State, such as the Lord Chancellor, and others; 
but the fact that we are at war, and that, therefore, the Ministers here are engaged 
upon other work connected with the War, which makes their presence impossible, 
has to some extent (and I think this has been apparent from the speeches which 
have been made) weakened our discussion. But, personally, I rejoice very much 
that this Resolution has been placed on the paper, and I think the debate which has 
taken place has been of immense interest, and of very great value to us, whether we 
come from the Self-governing Dominions, or from the Empire of India, or from the 
United Kingdom. I think it will help us very much. 

I should like just to say that I am sure I speak for His Majesty's Government 
in this one respect, when I express our cordial appreciation of the references which 
have been made not only to our Sovereign King George V and His gracious . Consort, 
who has been well described as a British princess, but also to King Edward VII and 
Queen Victoria, a long succession of monarchs who, by their wisdom and by their 
action as the reigning sovereigns of this Empire, have done so much to deserve those 
tributes which we have heard to-day; which, I am convinced, come, not merely 
superficially, but from the hearts not only of those who represent the various parts of 
the Empire, but from the various parts of the Empire themselves. I have always 
felt, myself, in regard to this very difficult question of Imperial Federation (and I 
apologize to the Conference for giving them what is, after all only my own view) , that 
really the working plan of the future will have to come from the Dominions them- 
selves. Constitution making is rather a popular occupation, and just as during this 
War, we find that every omnibus or railway carriage contains commanders-in-chief of 
both the Navy and the Army, who judging by their conversation, are prepared 
at any moment to take supreme command and do things better than the commanders 
do them,, so we find constitution-makers are very plentiful. There are all sorts of 
schemes in the air. It has always seemed to me to be a very dangerous thing 
to attempt to make a Constitution which we would seek to impose upon the 
various parts, of our Empire which have strong views of their own, and who must 
of necessity know their own local difficulties and conditions better than they can be 
appreciated here. That we must arrive at some closer system of government, some 
wider share not only in government but in the responsibility of government, is, I 
think, apparent to all of us, but we can only do it, I believe, by very cautious and 
gradual steps; and I am one of those who believe that we shall find the solution 
rather in evolution than in any tremendous root and branch change. We must all 
feel that the British Empire has stood this supreme test with marvellous success, and 
however anxious we may all be for reform, I am convinced, speaking, if I may say 
so with great respect, merely for myself, that wise reform will be found in gradual 
and prudent procedure rather in anything very sudden and drastic. That is why 
I welcome, as I cordially do, this Resolution, because I am bound to say I believe 
this War would have been fought, if not in vain, at* all events with very 
unsatisfactory results when the victory is won, if it had not led the British Empire 

42a— 5J 



£8 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 

: "■=!«.;«,.., 7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

to realize that' she must strengthen herself and must consolidate if she is to meet the 
•future and be the power for peace and progress in the future which -all those who 
have died in this War gave their lives in order that she might be. 

It is for these reasons that I venture very briefly 1 to say these two or three words.- 
I regret very much the absence of the Prime Minister and his colleagues. I hope I 
have not misled the Conference as to any announcement he is going to make, because 
I have no right to do anything of the kind; I only intended to indicate that he was 
going to meet us on Thursday, when no doubt, we shall hear his views on various 
questions. 

Now, may I put the Kesolution to the Conference as amended ? 

The Resolution, as read out by Sir R. Borden with the amendments relating to 
India, was put to the Conference by the Chairman, and agreed to in the following 
form : — 

The Imperial War Conference are of opinion that the readjustment of the 
constitutional relations of the component parts of the Empire is too important and 
intricate a subject' to be dealt with during the War, and that it should form the sub- 
ject of a special Imperial Conference to be summoned as soon as possible after the 
cessation of hostilities. 

They deem it their duty, however, to place on record their view^that any such 
readjustment, while thoroughly 'preserving all existing powers of self-government and 
complete control of domestic affairs, should be based upon a full recognition of the 
Dominions as autonomous nations of an Imperial Commonwealth, and of India as an 
important portion of the same, should recognize the right of the Dominions and India 
to an adequate voice in foreign policy and in foreign relations, and should provide 
effective arrangements for continuous consultation in all important matters of common 
Imperial concern, and for such necessary concerted action, founded on consultation, as 
the several Governments may determine. 

Naturalization. 

Sir George Perley : Looking over the papers in connection with the subject of 
" Naturalization " I would venture to express the opinion that there is nothing in the 
suggestions to which we could take exception. At the same time I think it is a matter 
that ought to go to the Departments of Justice of the various Dominions unless some- 
body is here willing to take it up and go into it carefully. In a general way the pro- 
posals put forward seem to me to be very reasonable and necessary. 

Chairman: I was asked to move two resolutions on the subject pro forma: I 
need hardly say it is not my subject; I am not responsible for it, but the Home Secre- 
tary, who is responsible, is unfortunately ill and cannot attend. So all we could have 
would be the advantage of the presence of the permanent officials. 

General Smuts : The resolutions seem only pro forma. 

Chairman : I am told that is all they are. 

Mr. Massey : I would like to look at the papers connected with it before I say any- 
thing on the subject. 

Chairman: Then we will put "Naturalization" first on the paper for our next 
meeting. 

Mr. Massey : I do not think the matter is of very great importance. 

Adjourned to Wednesday next at 11 o'clock. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 69 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

TENTH DAY. 
Wednesday, 18th April, 1917. 

The Imperial War Conference met at the Colonial Office at 11 a.m, 

present : 

The Eight Honourable Walter H. Long, M.P., Secretary of State for the Colonies 
(Chairman of the Conference). 

Canada. 

The Eight Honourable Sir E. Borden, G.C.M.G., Prime Minister. 

The Honourable Sir Gr. H. Perley, K.O.M.G., Minister of Overseas Military 

Forces. 
The Honourable E. Sogers, Minister of PubjLic Works. 
The Honourable J. D. Hazen, Minister of Marine and Fisheries and Minister of 

the Naval Service. 

New Zealand:. 

The Eight Honourable W. F. Massey, Prime Minister. 

The Eight Honourable Sir Joseph Ward, Bart., K.C.M.C, Minister of Finance. 

South Africa. 

Lieutenant-General the Eight Honourable J. O. Smuts, Minister of Defence- 

Newfoundland. 

The Eight Honourable Sir E. P. Morris, K.C.M.G., Prime Minister. 

India. 

The Eight Honourable A. Chamberlain, M.P., Secretary of State for India. 
Sir J. S. Meston, K.C.S.I., Lieutenant-Governor of the United Provinces- 
Colonel His Highness The Maharaja of Bikaner, G.O.S.I., G.C.I.E., A.D.C. 
Sir S. P. Sinha, Member Designate of the Executive Council of the Governor of 
Bengal. 

Mr. H. C. M. Lambert, C.B., Secretary to the Conference. 

Mr. E. J. Harding, Junior Assistant Secretary to the Conference. 

THERE WERE ALSO PRESENT : 

Sir G. V. Fiddes, G.C.M.G., C.B., Permanent Under Secretary of State for the 

Colonies. 
Mr. A. D. Steel-Maitland, MP., Parliamentary Under Secretary of 'State for the 

Colonies. 
The Eight Honourable Sir Eobert Chalmers, G.O.B., Permanent Secretary to the 

Treasury. 
Sir Edward Troup, K.O.B., Permanent Under Secretary of State, Home Office. 
Sir E. Nott-Bower, K.C.B., Chairman, Board of Inland Eevenue. 
Mr. John Pedder, C.B., Legal Adviser, Colonial Office, 
Mr. J. S. Eisley, C.B., Legal Adviser Colonial Office. 

Mr. N. F. Warren Fisher, O.B., Deputy Chairman, Board of Inland Eevenue. 
Mr. J. Fischer Williams, Home Office. 
Mr. H. W. Malkin, Assistant Legal Adviser, Foreign Office, 

and 
Private Secretaries. 



7J IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Naturalization. 

Chairman: Oh this question will you begin, Sir Robert Borden? 

Sir Robert Borden: I would suggest, Mr. Chairman, that we might 
dispose of the question as to naturalization pretty briefly by referring the recom- 
mended proposals for the consideration of the respective Governments summoned to 
the Conference. It is impossible for this Conference to enter into all the details of 
the proposed legislation. A general Act, which was passed by the Parliament of the 
United Kingdom about three years ago, I think, was adopted in Canada after a great 
deal of conference and communication by cable. I do not know whether it has 
been adopted in any of the other Dominions or not; I think it has been adopted in 
Newfoundland. 

Sir Edward Morris: Yes. 

Sir Robert Borden:' It is now suggested that the provisions of that 
legislation, having regard to the experience gained in the War, will require 
amendment and extension. We could not possibly come to an agreement on the 
subject at this Conference. The Minister of Justice in Canada has devoted a great 
deal of time to the consideration of Naturalization, and the Bill which was passed in 
our Parliament in the same terms as that passed in the Parliament of the United 
Kingdom was under his direction in conference with his colleagues. I suggest that 
probably we would meet the situation if a Resolution in this form were moved: 
"It is resolved that the proposals set forth in the Memoranda submitted by the 
Home Office be commended to the consideration of the respective Governments 
summoned to the Conference." The consideration of the matter could proceed 

between the Government of the United Kingdom and the Governments of India and 
the Dominions in the same manner as it took place upon the original Bill. I do not 
wish to move this Resolution unless it is considered sufficient by the representatives 
of the Home Office. It seems to me that it meets the situation as well as it can be 
met under present conditions. 

Chairman : What do you say to that, Sir Edward ? 

Sir Edward Troup : The proposal is to recommend to the Dominion 
Governments the proposals put forward in this Memorandum? 

Sir Robert Borden : Yes. — 

Sir Edward Troup: Both the legislative and the administrative proposals? 

Sir Robert Borden: Yes — "that the proposals set forth in the Memo- 
randa submitted by the Home Office be commended to the consideration of the 
respective Governments summoned to the Conference." 

Sir Edward Troup: Clearly in any case we should wish to consult with 
the Dominion Governments on the details of the proposals. Our object now is to get 
s general assent to the principle from the Conference. 

Mr. Massey: Do you mean to the Bill? 

Sir Edward Troup : I am speaking of the Bill, but the same would apply 
also to the administrative proposals. 

Mr. Massey: This is a somewhat imporant subject at this juncture, Mr. Long, 
and it must come up to be considered and dealt with either now, before the end of 
the War, or just immediately after it. If possible I think it ought to be -dealt with 
before the end of the War. I am afraid that in our Naturalization laws we have 
been somewhat lax, and I am speaking not so much of the United Kingdom as of 
the Dominions. We have all had trouble and difficulties already and I think there 
should be such legislation passed by the Parliament of the United Kingdom and by 
the Legislatures of the Dominions as will if possible enable us to avoid similar* 
trouble in the future. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 71 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

I have just been looking at the Bill and it seems to me that the important part 
of it is subsection (2) of clause 1, where it is provided that "A Secretary of State 
may also by order revoke a certificate of naturalization in any case in which he is 
satisfied after such inquiry as hereinafter mentioned that the person to whom the 
certificate was granted either — 

"(a) Has shown himself by overt act or speech to be disloyal to His Majesty; or 

"(b) Has within 'five years of the date of the grant to his certificate of 
naturalization been sentencel to not less than twelve months' imprison- 
ment or to a term of penal servitude; or 

"(c) Was not at the date of the grant of his certificate of naturalization of good 
character; or, 

"(d) Has since the date of the grant of his certificate of naturalization been for 
a period of not less than seven years ordinarily resident out of His 
Majesty's dominions otherwise than as a representative of a British 
subject, firm, or company carrying on business, or an institution 
established in His Majesty's Dominions, or in the service of the Crown, 
and has not maintained substantial connection with His Majesty's 
dominions ; 

"and that (in any case) the continuance of his certificate is not conducive to the 
public good." 

That is a pretty drastic proposal, but I am not prepared to say it goes too far, 
and as a matter of fact, I do not think it does. I think when this present War 
comes to an end we have got to be particularly careful about the naturalization of 
enemy subjects, and when the matter comes before our Parliament, as it must, 
because our Naturalization Laws are not by any means perfect, and we know it now, 
speaking for myself, I shall do my best to prevent any of the present enemy subjects 
being naturalized without their showing particularly good reason therefor. As a 
matter of fact, speaking generally, I do not think we should naturalize the present 
enemy subjects for-a considerable period, say, five or seven years, after the War 
comes to an end. In saying that I am looking forward to the attempts which will be 
made, as we all know perfectly well, by enemy subjects to get back into the com- 
mercial and industrial position which they occupied prior to the War. I am very 
strongly of opinion that those attempts should be resisted to the utmost of our power, 
for a very long time to come at any rate. , 

Sir Joseph Ward: I agree, with Mr. Massey'sl remarks. Personally I am 
in full accord with this proposal to give power of cancellation to the Secretary of 
State, I think it is worthy of the most serious consideration of all the Oversea 
Dominions that the power of cancellation of naturalization of any one should remain 
in the hands of the Executive. It is to my mind desirable that there should be 
reconsideration with regard to the period of time entitling to naturalization which, in 
previous periods in our country, and I think in some of the others, was altogether too 
short. I am inclined to think that it would be a good thing if a definite period were 
fixed of seven years at least. Under the old system any one coming along and remain- 
ing for two years only in some countries — I am not at all sure that in one country it 
was not less — could have the right to receive the benefit of the laws of a British 
country. I think that should be stopped at once and for all, and that the power should 
exist in the legislation of the British and all the other Governments, if it is not 
bpre now, to cancel the certificate of any person at any time who has been naturalized 
in any country if sufficient reason is shown that that should be done. 

Our experience in this War has shown us that it is impossible to allow liberties 
to be taken by enemy subjects, many of whom upon the outbreak of War directly 
associated themselves with their country of origin; and, in any case it has 



72 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 



7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 



been shown clearly that for quite a long period after the War they were in 
association privately, numbers of them, with people in outside countr-ies with the 
object of interfering with the country in which they were making their living 
and which was protecting them under the law and in which they were receiving 
the benefit of naturalization. In all those cases where that . can be ascertained 
the naturalization certificate should be cancelled, in my opinion; at all events, I 
for one am prepared to go to the very greatest length that it is possible to go to 
prevent the possibility arising in the future of enemy subjects within the British 
Empire getting into a position that may be disastrous to us should there be any 
difficulties in the way of war with other countries or with the countries to which 
they belong or from which they have come. Each of the countries will carry out the 
legislation dealing with naturalization in such a way as they think proper; but in 
view of the facilities for rapid travel and the ever increasing number of steamers which 
give rapid transit across the ocean to different parts, it does seem to me that if the 
Naturalization Laws are to be thoroughly effective there must be some method 
in operation to deal with people naturalized in one portion of the Dominions passing 
to another; and a review should take place when they pass from the one Dominion 
to reside in another as to the person and the circumstances under which he obtained 
his original naturalization. This Empire is too big and it is too close to enemy 
countries at the present moment not to realize that whatever may have appeared to be 
reasonable and fair in the past would not, in the light of our recent experiences, be 
reasonable and fair to the people in our countries at the present time. As far as T 
am concerned, I hope the British Government will get legislation of a drastic nature 
on the statute book, and that in turn the Oversea Dominions will in their way 
follow in the direction of ensuring their preservation from any , enemy off orts by or 
through naturalized subjects to weaken us in the future. 

Mr. Massey : May I ask the representative of the Home Office a question ? 
It was suggested some time prior to the outbreak of war that we should have legis- 
lation not only in the United Kingdom but in the different parts of the Empire to 
the effect that when a foreigner became naturalized in any of the Dominions, or in 
any part of the Empire, the certificate or letters of naturalization entitled him to 
citizenship in any other part of the Empire. I do not know whether that was ever 
given effect to. 

Sir Edward Troup: Yes, that was given effect to under the Act of 1914, 
which provided a general law under which five years would be required before there 
could be any naturalization. It provided that where the Act was adopted by a 
Dominion then the certificate granted by the Dominion should have effect throughout 
the whole Empire. 

Mr. Massey: That is the point really upon which I want information. 

Sir Edward Troup: As a matter of fact the Act was passed just after the 
beginning of the War and it had received the absolute assent of all the Dominions, 
but passing immediately after the outbreak of war it hardly received the large 
''amount of attention which it deserved. 

Mr. Massey : Is that the Act ? 

Sir Edward Troup: That is the Act which has been adopted in Canada. 

Mr. Rogers : Have you adopted it in New Zealand ? 

Mr. Massey: Eo, we have not. 

Mr. Bogers : Then you are lucky. 

Sir Edward Troup: The adoption of that Act with the further amendment sug- 
gested would, I think, effect what Sir Joseph Ward wants. 

Sir Bobert Borden : I am not criticising the proposals. I do suggest that the 
subject is important and, in some respects, complex. The Act was adopted by our 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 73 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Parliament after very considerable discussion and after a very long conference 
with the Imperial Authorities. It is now proposed that certain administrative 
principles shall be adopted and that certain amendments shall be made in that 
Act. It is utterly impossible for me, without the assistance of the Minister of 
.1 ustice and without the assistance of the technical officers of his Department, to 
say whether we are prepared to accept these proposed amendments precisely in the 
form in which they are submitted to the Conference. Therefore, as it will be 
necessary in the end to refer this matter to the Oversea Dominions, it seemed to me 
that the situation would be adequately met if we commend these proposals to the 
consideration of our respective Governments. As far as I am concerned I have been 
unable to give the time and attention to these proposals which would enable me 
to say that the Canadian Government and the Canadian Parliament would accept 
them precisely in the form in which they are submitted. It is quite possible that 
we shall be prepared to accept them, but I am not able to say that without the 
assistance to which I have already alluded. The Home Office have given long and 
careful study to the question. We have not had that advantage and we have not 
the persons here whom we should require to assist us for that purpose. I should not 
be inclined therefore, to assent to any Resolution which adopted those proposals in 
the absence of the opportunity, to myself at least, of giving them the consideration 
which they must have. 

Sir Edward Morris : I must say I am very strongly in favour of the proposal 
of the Prime Minister of Canada on this point. There is a great deal in what Sir 
Joseph Ward has said, but we must remember that this is not an Act against the 
countries that are at war with us now; this is an Act against the United States 
and against all our other Allies, and we must be very careful. 

Sir Joseph Ward : It only relates to alien subjects. 

Sir Edward Morris: Yes, but alien subjects are people who can come from 
the United States to Canada and from the United States to your country. This 
Act is going to deal with every country in the world and with every part of the 
Empire. It is important to remember, for instance, that by clause 2 (&) of the Bill 
here a man may lose his citizenship in Canada if he commits an offence which 
subjects him to imprisonment for twelve months although he has been a naturalized 
subject for five years. All his neighbours round about are committing the same 
offences although they are not naturalized subjects, and that might have a very bad 
effect and create a very bad feeling amongst people in the country who are desirous 
of settling down and becoming good citizens. I think under all the circumstances, 
having regard to the technicalities of this subject, it would be well to have the 
matter first 'considered from the standpoint of the various Dominions, and for them 
to ascertain first whether there are any difficulties. If there are any difficulties they 
should ascertain them, and after communication with the Home Office or the Colonial 
Office we probably should be able to have a Bill drafted which would be of such a 
general character as to meet with the wishes of all. 

Chairman : Does not the Resolution suggested by the Prime Minister of 
Canada really meet the case? It affirms the principle. I do not know whether the 
Prime Minister of Canada would be willing to add some words affirming the general 
proposition contained in the Home Office Resolution. 

General Smuts : You might add, " while generally in agreement with the pro- 
posals of the Home Office." 

Chairman: Something of that kind. The words of the draft Resolution 
prepared by the Home Office are : " It is resolved that it is desirable to take further 
power to revoke certificates of naturalization on grounds of disloyalty or other 
misconduct or severance of connection with the Empire." We want some words of 
that kind to show that we want to strengthen our powers. 



74 ' IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Sir Eobert Borden : Mr. Chamberlain has suggested an addition to the clause 
svhich I would be perfectly willing to accept, and which, indeed, expresses precisely 
my own idea, " and that the Conference recognizes the desirability and importance of 
securing uniformity of policy and action throughout the Empire with regard to 
naturalization." 

Mr. Massey: I should like to say a word on that, and especially with reference 
to the point raised by Sir Edward Morris. With a very great deal of what Sir Edward 
said I thoroughly agree, but in order that no wrong impression may be created I 
would just like to say that nothing we are doing at the present moment is directed 
against either the United States or any of our Allies or any neutral country. It is 
not; nothing is further from my thoughts; but I cannot help thinking of the 
position which we have got into already with regard to the provision I mentioned 
when I was speaking a few minutes ago, that is, that if the law which is in operation 
in the United Kingdom is adopted by the Dominions, then it follows that the issue 
of letters of naturalization by any one of the Dominions to a citizen of any foreign 
country entitles that man to a citizenship in every other part of the British Empire. 
I am now inclined to think that we have got to be particularly careful, as that is 
already the law, not of the whole of the Empire, but of the United Kingdom and of 
the more important of its Dominions. That is the position to-day, and I can imagine 
cases where men may in future have the opportunity of becoming naturalized in 
some of the other Dominions, and yet New Zealand, for instance — and I am simply 
taking that as an illustration — might object to that man having the right of citizenship 
in our country. I think, in view of the position that at present exists, with regard 
to that particular provision we have to be exceedingly careful of what we are doing. 
As a matter of fact, I think we have to be far more careful with regard to the 
naturalization of the citizens of foreign countries, more especially enemy countries, 
after the War than ever we have been up. to the present time. 

Mr. Chamberlain: I think we are all agreed about that, if I may say so; 
but surely we should also be agreed upon this, that, if we can secure it, uniformity of 
legislation is very desirable, and is in itself an object. It would seem a fitting thing 
for this Conference to express its opinion that the uniformity of legislation is 
desirable while commending these proposals to the consideration of the Dominion 
Governments, and it would then set before us all, both the Government here and the 
Governments in the Dominions, that our object would be to arrive at some settlement 
which could be adopted throughout the Empire. 

Sir Joseph Ward: I would just like to say what was the opinion of the 
men who were responsible for the proposals regarding the amended laws for 
naturalization at the previous Conferences which I attended and which have been 
alluded to." At that time the idea was to have that unity of action which 
Mr. Chamberlain has just referred to, and which personally, I think, it is highly 
desirable should be the aim of the different portions of the Empire now; but at 
the same time, it was believed by, I think, all the representatives who were here 
at the Imperial Conference, that the periods which varied in the different countries 
should be made uniform, and it was strongly held by different members that the 
certificates issued by any portion of the Empire should be admissible in other 
portions of the Empire. 

I raised that point in the discussion to-day for the purpose of saying, as one who 
was at the previous Imperial Conferences, that as the outcome of the experience in- 
this War I for one have altered my opinion about that. I think there should be the 
right remaining to each of the portions of the Empire to review a certificate issued 
in any other portion of the Empire. 

As to this question of the United States, which is a very important one, raised 
by Sir Edward Morris, if we remember what the position was in pre-war days, as far 
as the United States of America were concerned, it was looked upon as the home of 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 75 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

the alien; he had an opportunity of getting into that country at one time in a very 
easy way. It is quite true that in recent years they have under administrative 
regulations been much more strict; but after this War is over it is quite conceivable 
that aliens even from enemy countries may get into the United States of America 
and become naturalized American citizens. They may pass over the border into 
Canada and after remaining in Canada for a time get a certificate of naturalization 
and then pass to some other portion of the Empire which might for local reasons 
regard them as undesirable people to be naturalized. 

Sir Eobert Borden : If yo u will permit me, I would like Sir Joseph Ward 
to realize, perhaps more clearly than he does, that for the past fifteen years at least 
the provisions, both legislative and administrative, in force in the United States with 
regard to the admission of aliens are stricter probably than in any other country. 
I took occasion to study them about ten years ago ; I will not attempt to describe 
them, but they are exceedingly comprehensive and effective. I do not think there 
is the slightest danger, so far as they are concerned, of any relaxation of those 
provisions after the War. At the same time, of course, I realize that it is for every 
Dominion of the Empire to come to a conclusion as to the effect of this legislation. 
I do think, however, it is very important that there should be some Empire-wide 
system of naturalization, and that principle was affirmed at the previous Conference. 
The situation with regard to naturalization hitherto had been of the most extra- 
ordinary character. Naturalization granted in one Dominion took no effect anywhere 
else; naturalization in the United Kingdom took no effect in the Dominions; it was 
a system of disunion so far as naturalization was concerned. 

Sir Joseph Ward : I am quite prepared to defer to Sir Eobert Borden, with 
a greater knowledge of the position in the United States than I have, and I am very 
glad to hear that its administration .has been so strict in the past fifteen years to 
which he refers, but I am not quite sure whether one point, to which we attach very 
great importance in New Zealand, does exist in the United States of America, as 
to the admission of people who may become naturalized even under the strict 
administration in that country. We expect before we allow an alien i into our country 
that he should pass an educational test. My impression is that that test does not 
exist in the United States. 

Sir Eobert Borden: I do not speak positively, but my impression is to the 
contrary — that they have an educational test. 

Chairman : But in any case surely the legislation which . we are discussing 
has nothing to do with the right of a Dominion to limit immigration? 

Sir Joseph Ward : No. 

Mr. Chamberlain; You do not offer to receive every Canadian citizen or 
every English citizen, but you treat him, if he is a British citizen by English law, as 
a British citizen and not as an alien. 

Sir Joseph Ward: I quite agree. If you include it under the head of 
Immigration it may not have a direct bearing on the question of Naturalization. I 
referred to it, however, for the purpose of saying that in our country, and no doubt 
in other countries too, we are a little sensitive, and excessively anxious to ensure the 
preservation of the people there from an undesirable class which might come from 
other countries. In my view the Resolution of Sir Eobert Borden is the only 
course, or at all events it is a very effective course, and one that I quite agree with. 
This whole question is very far-reaching, and there is no doubt that at the present 
time, and I hope in the years to come too, there will be a very earnest and anxious 
desire on the part of each of the overseas countries to amend their naturalization 
laws so as to prevent the recurrence of those troubles which undeniably arose in 
all parts of the Empire. In post-war days people may forget the terrible atrocities 
that have been committed by enemy countries in this great War. Time is a great 



76 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

healer, and in the course of ten or fifteen years from no.w it is very hard to anticipate 
whether we will not get back to a condition of things, as the result of the develop- 
ment of trade and intercourse of one sort and another, which may make people 
forget some of the enormous difficulties that presented themselves at the outcome of 
the War. I recognize that the matter is too big to settle definitely at this Conference*, 
and I think the Resolution of Sir Robert Borden should be accepted. 

Mr. Massey : Only that it expresses an opinion in f avour of uniformity with 
which we do not all quite agree. I will not detain the Conference more than a 
minute or two. One instance of the difficulty of the Naturalization Law has occurred 
to me; it is a difficulty that we experience in New Zealand at the present moment. 
We have a New Zealand indiistry which is locally known in the Dominion as 
gum digging, which is peculiar to New Zealand. That has attracted a- number of 
people whom we were in. the habit prior to the War of speaking of as Aus.trians. 
Probably we have 3,000 of those men in the North Island of New Zealand in one 
particular locality. When the War broke out a good deal of anxiety was expressed 
as to the attitude that might possibly be taken up by those men who had come from 
the centre of Europe, let me say, for the purpose of carrying on the gum-digging 
industry in New Zealand by which they were, and are, able to earn very good wages; 
it was an industry peculiar to them. We set up a Royal Commission called the 
Aliens' Commission for the purpose of making inquiries into the -position of any 
doubtful alien that might be resident in New Zealand, and great anxiety was 
expressed by the northen centres as to what might occur owing to the presence of 
these Austrian subjects in the North Island. I directed the attention of the Commission 
to these people and asked them to make the necessary inquiries. They went into the 
whole subject exhaustively, and they reported — I am not able to repeat the wording 
of the Report, or anything near it — to the effect that there was not the slightest 
danger from these people, and although they were nominally Austrian subjects their 
sympathies were not with Austria, but were entirely with Russia — that they were really 
Slavs, and that there was not the slightest danger to be apprehended from them. As 
a matter of fact, a number of these men asked the New Zealand Government to allow 
them to enlist for the New Zealand Expeditionary Force, and we did allow about 200 
of them to go, but we were advised by the Imperial authorities that it was hardly the 
proper thing to allow enemy subjects to go into the British Army, even although we 
were quite aware that they were all right, and therefore we did not allow any more 
to volunteer. Arising out of that very difficult position difficulties may be experienced 
in the future, and perhaps an injustice may be done to some of these men to whom I 
have referred. That only shows the necessity for extreme caution in connection with 
any amendment of our Naturalization Law. 

Mr Rogers: We have in Canada the very same condition only in a very much 
larger degree. 

Mr. Chamberlain: That special class of case is recognized in the Memorandum 
from the Home Office we have before us. 

Chairman : Perhaps Sir Robert Borden will read his Resolution as amended to 
the Conference. 

Sir Robert Borden: 

"It is resolved that the proposals set forth in the Memoranda of the Home 
Office be commended to the consideration of the respective Governments sum- 
moned to the Conference. The Conference recognises the desirability and the 
importance of securing uniformity of policy and action throughout the Empire 
with regard to Naturalization." 

General Smuts: Will you invert the two portions and start with the general 
statement at the beginning and then go on to say that should be referred to the 
respective Governments? 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 77 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Sir Robert Borden : - Yes, I think that would he better : 

''The Conference recognises the desirability and the importance of securing 
uniformity of policy and action throughout the Empire with regard to Natural- 
ization, and it is resolved that the proposals set forth in the Memorandum sub- 
mitted by the Home Office be commended to the consideration of the respective 
Governments summoned to the Conference." 

General Smuts: Yes. 

Mr. Massey : Could you not say "if possible securing uniformity ?" As a matter 
of fact I cannot pledge myself to support it as it stands. 

Sir Robert Borden : That does not pledge anyone. - 

Mr. Massey : But it is implied. 

General Smuts : We are already bound by a previous resolution. 

Sir George Perley : That is supposed to be the policy of the Empire as affirmed 
at the last Conference, and it has been put into force in certain parts of the Empire 
already. 

Mr. Massey: Then if it is the policy of the Empire now it is not necessary to 
repeat it — that is my point. 

Sir George Perley: If you could get the Acts made to suit the conditions of 
New Zealand I suppose you would agree that it is desirable for them all to be alike? 

Mr. Massey : If possible, but I want to make it perfectly clear that I do not bind 
myself to support it all. 

Sir Robert Borden : Well, you need not support anything at all under this Reso- 
lution unless the provisions of the general Act are such that New Zealand is prepared 
to adhere to them. 

Mr. Hazen: It simply commends the proposals for consideration — that is all it 
does. 

Mr Massey : It goes further than that. The consideration part of it is all right. 
' Mr. Chamberlain: But surely this is a resolution which is as much directed to 
the authors of the Memorandum we have before us and of the Draft Bill as to the 
Dominions. 

Mr. Massey: Quite so. 

Mr Chamberlain : We say in this Resolution that it is desirable to secure uni- 
formity. Well, uniformity can only be obtained by a process of give and take, and it 
implies that even if the Home Government thought some particular proposal were in 
itself very desirable, it might yet be right to sacrifice that opinion to the necessity of 
uniformity if the Dominions did not accept it. 

Mr. Massey : Yes, so long as this is not taken to read that the Dominions are 
expected, or pledge themselves directly or indirectly to alter their legislation in con- 
formity with the legislation that has already been agreed to in the United Kingdom. 

Sir Robert Borden: Nothing of that kind is possible under the Resolution. 

Mr. Massey : I want to make that perfectly clear. 

Sir Robert Borden : Notwithstanding the Resolution of the last Conference, we 
suggested to the Imperial Government that before the Bill would be accepted by 
Canada certain amendments should be made. We had a long discussion; there was 
give and take, and eventually we arrived at a basis which was acceptable to both. That 
is the only way in which it can be carried out in any Dominion. If New Zealand 
thinks more stringent regulations are necessary, New Zealand has perfect liberty of 
action to consent to no general Act unless that Act embodies the provisions which she 
thinks necessary. 



78 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Sir Edward Troup : If I may say so, the Act as it stands can be made stricter 
in the administration of it by any Dominion. The Act requires five years' residence, 
but there is nothing in it to prevent any Dominion requiring seven years before 
anybody can obtain naturalization; or they could refuse to naturalize any person of 
a certain nationality at any time. 

Mr. Massey : Would not that destroy uniformity ? 

Sir Edward Troup : I do not think it would, because the great point about uni- 
formity is that if the certificate is granted it should be effective throughout the 
Empire. 

Chairman : Are we in a position to pass this Resolution now ? It runs as follows : 

"The Confernce recognises the desirability and the importance of securing 
uniformity of policy and action throughout the Empire with regard to naturaliza- 
tion, and it is resolved that the proposals set forth in the memorandum sub- 
mitted by the Home Office be commended to the consideration of the respective 
Governments summoned to the Conference." {Agreed.) 



Double Income Tax. 

Chairman : The next subject on our Agenda is Double Income Tax,* as to which 
Mr. Massey is willing to hear the statement from the Treasury. Although it is put 
on the Agenda paper Mr. Massey is not, I understand, prepared to make a full state- 
ment of his case to-day. Perhaps the Treasury will be good enough to tell the Con- 
ference their point of view. 

Sir Rorert Chalmers : The position is that our income tax is the subject of very 
great attack here in this country, and there has been a pledge given by the Government 
that an inquiry into the question of income tax of this country should be instituted 
as soon as possible, but it has been very clearly laid down that there can be no inquiry 
into that tax while! we are actually immersed in the war and while the income tax 
staff, which is a very small staff, is itself hard pressed in raising money. That is the 
position as regards this country. 

Mr. Massey : May I ask a question, because I am not clear about the point which 
has been mentioned? Do you say there is to be an inquiry? 

Sir Robert Chalmers : That is the position. 

Mr. Massey: Then that blocks legislation. 

May I follow that up by asking, is any amending legislation possible without 
inquiry ? 

Sir Robert Chalmers : No, it is not contemplated that there should be any legis- 
lation. As a matter of fact, the whole staff is overworked. We have an income tax' 
staff which is worked to the utmost at the present time, and the Government, to put 
it very shortly, do not contemplate, for this country, pursuing during the war the 
inquiry to which it is pledged while the staff is so very hard worked. That is the 
general position in this country as regards income tax. 

Mr. Rogers: Then what purpose is to be gained by bringing it up at this Con- 
ference ? 

Sir Robert Chalmers : We have not brought it up. 

Chairman : It is not brought up by the Treasury. 

Mr. Rogers: No, but I want to know what is the purpose to be served by going 
on with it? 

* See Memorandum printed on pp. 167-168. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 79 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Mr. Massey : You will hear. 

Sir Robert Chalmers: I should like to say that it is very much in the view of 
the Government that what we know as the Colonial view should be considered. We 
cannot, even on our own account, make an inquiry during the war, but as soon as 
the war is over it is contemplated that there should be a full inquiry into not only 
our own matters but also the views of the Colonial Governments concerned. 

Chairmax : In answer to Mr. Eogers, I ought to say that I do not think it possible 
for this motion not to be raised by some representative of the Dominions, because 
there is a very strong feeling about it, and it has been accentuated, as Sir Robert Chal- 
mers knows and regrets as much as anybody, by the cases of women who are in Eng- 
land and have made this their home, ahd who have married soldiers in our different 
Dominion Forces and who are now widows and are living here. They have brought 
their cases before the Treasury, and also before myself, so I think the matter was 
bound to be raised. I do not know whether Sir Robert Chalmers requires any 
support from us, but I am sure. Mr. Chamberlain and I "realize that the depletion of 
staffs is making the discharge of their duties by Government Departments almost 
impossible. 

Sir Robert Chalmers : I am much obliged to you, Sir, for saying that about the 
Inland Revenue, which is very hard worked indeed. 

Chairmax: The collection of revenue is of a highly complex character; I only 
speak of it as an unfortunate person from whom it is collected, but, of course, it is a 
tremendously difficult task for anybody, and the staffs are absolutely depleted down to 
starvation. 

Sir Robert Chalmers : That is so. That is a difficulty with which the Govern- 
ment here is confronted. It is pressed very hard by various sections of opinion and 
interests to have a general inquiry into the income tax, but their answer to it has 
been: "No, we cannot face such an inquiry while the war is on and while the staff 
is depleted." That is the position as regards ourselves. 

Mr. Hazex: Practically the position then is that until the war is over people 
will have to go on paying two income taxes, and nothing can be done until the end 
of the war to correct what is believed by many people to be a gross injustice. 

Sir Robert Chalmers : That is my frank and sincere opinion, that the machinery 
is so overstrained that the present position must continue. 

Mr. Hazex: Then, what is considered by many people as a very great abuse, will 
have to go on existing until the war is over, until the Treasury can get more officials 
to look into the matter ; is that it ? 

Sir Robert Chalmers : I notice the way you put it, but it is also true, as regards 
the troubles and difficulties which are experienced by you, that they are put on much 
the same ground here at home. Those difficulties must continue here, and the Colonial 
difficulties will be treated in the same way as our own people are treated, who com- 
plain very bitterly. The Government is pledged to have an inquiry into those domestic 
things and it would also inquire at the same time into the Colonial position, but after 
the war. 

Mr. Hazex: If an abuse exists is not this a time when it is necessary to have it 
corrected, a time when so many men are over here from the Oversea Dominions, living 
here in consequence of the war, and marrying here in England in consequence of the 
war ? Does not an abuse become more acute, if it is an abuse, at the present time than 
it was before the war commenced, and than it will be after the war is over? If thafe is 
the case, and if that question be answered in the affirmative, then should not some 
effort be made to deal with it now? Is not this the psychological moment when it 
should be dealt with. 



80 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 



7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 



Chairman : Mr. Hazen, might I say that I hold no brief for the Treasury, arid I 
know they are well able to defend themselves, but I can assure you from my own 
knowledge that the question is a very big one indeed, because there are what many 
people believe to be injustices and inequalities in the imposition of the income tax here. 
It is a tremendous question, and I am quite certain that the Treasury would not 
be allowed to raise only one branch of it affecting some income taxpayers without 
covering the whole ground. I cannot imagine that such an inquiry could be con- 
ducted now, or that if it were embarked upon, the results,- whatever they were, could 
be given effect to, because it would mean an entire revision of the whole of the 
machinery by which income tax is now collected. 

Sir Eobert Borden: Why was not it undertaken before the war? 

Chairman: That is another question. 

Mr. Hazen : Mr. Chairman, would it be impossible to have an inquiry directed to 
the one branch of the subject that is of so much importance to those living in the Domin- 
ions? The other is more a matter of domestic concern to the people of these Islands, 
but would it not be possible to get officials to have an inquiry into the one branch of 
the matter, that is double income tax, without taking up the whole subject? The injus- 
tice, if it is an injustice, to people paying income tax twice on the same income cer- 
tainly does seem to be very great. 

Sir Robert Chalmers: There are a great many difficulties. 

Mr. Massey : Like Mr. Hazen, I think we are all pleased to give the Treasury an 
opportunity of explaining their point of view to the Members of( the Conference, but 
I think each and every one of us must regret to hear from Sir Robert Chalmers that 
it is not possible to go on with the inquiry which is contemplated and which seems 
to be necessary before legislation is drafted and placed before the House of Commons. 
That, of course, makes it impossible to do anything as long as the war lasts. That I 
understand to be the position. 

Sir Robert Chalmers : That is the position which is forced upon us, a posi- 
tion we have to take up as against our own taxpayers who, as Mr. Long remarks, are 
very vocal and insistent about their claims^ being considered. May I just add that 
you will be aware that there was a concession made a year ago to the Colonial tax- 
payers to the extent of one shilling and sixpence in the pound as a temporary measure ? 

Mr. Massey : Yes, I understand all that ; but following up the last remarks of Sir 
Robert Chalmers, they seem to me to suggest that because taxpayers who belong to the 
Dominions have not been sufficiently vocal their case has not been heard and it is not 
intended to consider it. If that is the case, I am afraid we shall have to be more vocal 
in future. 

Sir Robert Chalmers: I venture to interpose here to say that I did not say that. 
I said that our own people could not be considered at all and that there is very great 
outcry, and that we could not contemplate the Colonial inquiry, much to our regret. 

Mr. Massey : So far as we are concerned, the position taken up by the Treasury 
need not prevent the Conference expressing an opinion; and I am more strongly of 
opinion than ever, now that we have heard the statement and understand the position, 
that we should not leave London without expressing a very definite opinon from the 
point of view of our respective countries. I am not going to discuss the whole question, 
but I will say this, that many of our people feel they are suffering very serious injustice 
under this system of double income tax. I thoroughly understand that and agree with 
it, but to my mind an even more important point is the way this system will -affect the 
community as a whole. That is the important point of- view according to my way of 
thinking, because in countries like Canada, New Zealand, and the other Dominions — 
I do not want to be drawn into discussing the general matter, and I will only take this 
point and then leave it — the way it is going to affect our countries is that we are 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 81 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

countries which must have capital for the purpose of development ; there is no question 
about it. We have not the capital in our own countries. Not one of us, I think, can 
be said to be in the ordinary sense of the term a rich community as compared, say, with 
the community in the United Kingdom. Very well, if the people who invest money in 
our country are going to be taxed there — because I think it will be admitted that it is 
fair and just and equitable to tax income in the country where the income is earned, 
that is, in the country of origin, and I do not think that can be disputed for the purpose 
of our income tax, or land tax it may be, but I leave that — and if then the same income 
is going to be taxed again in the United Kingdom, it will mean that the people who 
possess money and have been in the habit in the past of investing money in the 
Dominions will no longer do so, and will probably withdraw what they have invested 
there already. There are a number of small points in connection with this subject, but 
I am not going on with them to-day, and I do not want to be drawn into a general dis- 
cussion if I can avoid it, but I could not allow the matter to go without saying some- 
thing after what has been said by the representative of the Treasury. 

Sir Robert Chalmers: I also do not want to enter upon a discussion or break a 
lance with you on the matter, but you will have to be very careful, I submit, to see that 
you are not giving preferential treatment to British capital which goes to British 
colonies as against its use in the United Kingdom or elsewhere. 

Mr. Massey : What do you mean by "elsewhere" ? 

Mr. Hazen: The United States. 

Mr. Massey : Well, I am a believer in the theory of preference. 

Sir Robert Chalmers: I think you would have a very full measure of it if you 
were to extend that doctrine very fully, but I do not want to enter, any more than you 
do, upon the general discussion. 

Sir Robert Borden : I am greatly surprised at that point of view, which is entirely 
new to me. Is there really any objection to a policy which would introduce British 
capital to assist in the development of the Oversea Dominions and of the Empire as a 
whole ? 

Sir Robert Chalmers: None whatsoever. I was just raising the point in order 
that it might not be forgotten that there might be more than encouragement — that there 
might be preferential treatment — even against the Mother Country. I do not want to 
argue it here. 

Sir George Perley : That makes Mr. Massey' s argument all the stronger from the 
point of view of the Empire. 

Sir Robert Chalmers : From his point of view. 

Sir Robert Borden : If we are going to develop this Empire and endeavour to 
co-operate with each other, it would not seem a wise policy that foreign capital coming 
into our country and exercising control over our natural resources should be in a 
better position than British capital employed in the Oversea Dominions for that pur- 
pose. I am ready to hear what can be said against that view, but I must confess that 
it does not occur to me at the moment that very much can be said against it. The 
difficulty we have had in some of the Dominions is that German capital has come in 
and has acquired very unfortunate control of the natural resources of the Empire. 
If German capital coming into those Dominions is not subject to double income tax 
and British capital coming in is so subject, such a policy would tend to a perpetuation 
of the conditions which have been pretty generally recognized as unfortunate, having 
regard to our experience gained in this war. 

Sir Robert Chalmers : You must not take me as combating or endorsing the views 
that you put forward. I am only indicating that there was an aspect of the thing which 
would have to be seriously taken into account, and that you would have to take into 
account the question of residence in connection with the payment of income tax; and 

42a— 6 



82 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

as to that the Treasury is very clear that, as soon as we can have an inquiry, the various 
views which have been indicated here and which Cbuld be amplified should have full 
opportunity of being disclosed and discussed. 

Chairman: Before going any further I should like to be allowed to say that I 
think we must impose some restraint upon ourselves, however unpleasant it is, because 
Sir Eobert Chalmers can only speak here obviously from the Treasury point of view as 
the permanent head of the Treasury responsible for the work done there. When we 
come to a question of policy involving preferential relations, etc., obviously that is a 
question which could only be replied to by the Chancellor of the Exchequer himself. 
Unfortunately, owing to the war, we cannot have him here, as he should have been if 
we had been meeting in peace times, when we could raise the whole question. Of course, 
Sir Eobert Chalmers is bound by the policy of this and preceding Governments up to 
date, and cannot embark upon discussion as to any change of policy, whatever his 
views may be. 

Mr. Chamberlain : May I say one word, not so much as the Secretary of State for 
India but as one who has been Chancellor of the Exchequer, and say it not on merits 
but merely to make clear if I can to our colleagues from overseas what are the enormous 
difficulties of the British, Government in dealing with this matter. It has been sug- 
gested that the Treasury might take up the question of the double income tax payable 
in the dominions and at home as a separate and isolated question and deal with that 
rapidly. I venture to say — and I do not think anybody who has had any experience of 
our income tax law and administration would deny it — that the questions raised really 
go to the root of our whole income tax administration, and that we cannot in fact deal 
with the question of double income tax as affecting the dominions in isolation. Really 
in raising that you raise the whole basis on which our existing income tax is collected. 
I feel as strongly as any one that the question merits inquiry of the most careful kind 
at the earliest possible moment; but in view of my experience, both in office and in 
opposition, of income tax discussions, I can safely say that it would be quite impossible 
administratively, and I was almost going to say, even more impossible as a parlia- 
mentary matter, to deal with that problem in isolation without dealing with the general 
principles on which the British income tax is based. 

Sir Joseph Ward: There has been another matter introduced into this 
discussion that does not come under the question of income tax at all, and I feel that 
the views expressed upon that very important matter of the deflection of money to 
the oversea countries, and the money that is invested there not being dealt with 
upon terms similar to that of monies from other countries and to the disadvantage of 
money invested from this country in the oversea countries, is a question of high and 
important policy for which the Government of this country should alone be respon- 
sible. It would be disastrous if the policy of the Government of the day of this 
country favoured a differentiation against the investment of the monies of the people 
of the. United Kingdom in any of the oversea countries to the advantage of monies 
coming from any of the alien countries to be invested in our countries. In the 
long run, if money coming from outside countries, from foreign Countries or enemy 
countries, was at an advantage in the shape of being excluded from the double 
income tax, it would kill the investment of money from the Old Country in the 
British Territories. The effect of what I have just been suggesting has been very 
apparent in recent years through the action of Germany, through the very effective 
financial organization which they have had in operation, and in my opinion it would 
be a very good thing if this country could have a similar organization in order to 
prevent the possibility of the former state of things recurring in the future. I do 
n )t regard Sir Robert Chalmers as in any way committing himself, or the Treasury, 
or anyone to a policy. In my opinion it would be of greatest value to the oversea 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 83 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

countries when the time comes for consideration of that matter of high policy in 
regard to the investing of money, if there were some financial institution which has 
been already suggested, in the shape of some great commercial banking concern 
directed and controlled by responsible men attached to the Government of the day 
both here and in the Oversea Dominions. That would be invaluable to all the over- 
sea countries, and would be a tremendous check against any steps made directly or 
indirectly from enemy countries for investing money to our detriment in the Empire. 

Having briefly said that, I want to say, on the question of double income tax, 
that we in the oversea countries — -and I assume that the others are in the same 
position as the country which Mr. Massey and I represent — like British statesmen 
and the British Parliamentarians, and above all the Treasury (with whom we 
sympathise very much as to the difficulties they have at present) have been pressed 
by practically every section in our community for quite a long time upon this 
question of double income tax; and after this War arose the whole position was 
accentuated. It was quite well recognised that a concession was made here by 
the reduction of one shilling and sixpence in the pound, but that did not meet the 
accentuated position which arose in consequence of the War. Now in all our 
countries we are providing very large sums of money by increased taxation for the 
purpose of doing our part. The Treasury has been of enormous assistance to all of 
us — there is no question about it — but we are providing large sums of money, and 
even that part which in the early period of the War the British Treasury provided 
we have got to pay for sooner or later, and our people are being subjected to very 
largely increased taxation, and a good deal of that taxation will be of a permanent 
nature for the purpose of paying the interest and extinguishing the debts incurred 
foi' War purposes. 

Now this is the position in which a number find themselves. They are not only 
paying the ordinary double income tax, but many of them who of necessity have to 
come to this country are paying the double War Income Tax, if I may use the term; 
and the matter was so difficult and so very important from our standpoint, that we 
did not wait for the action of the British Government in order to give relief to these 
people in New Zealand. As anyone can find in our Act — in the Land and Income 
Tax Act of last year — with the concurrence of my colleagues I put in a special clause 
to relieve New Zealanders from double income tax, and it raises the question whether 
we should continue it in the event of a consideration of this matter being deferred 
for a long period. This is the clause, which is the law of the country at the 
present moment : " Income derived by a person resident in New Zealand but not 
derived from New Zealand shall be exempt from income tax if, and so far as the 
Commissioner is satisfied that it is derived from some other country within the 
British Dominions and that it is chargeable with income tax in that country." 
The meaning of that is that in the case of a person resident in New Zealand, if he is 
deriving income from London and pays income tax on it here, we remit that amount 
entirely as far as he is concerned so as to prevent him being mulcted in the double 
income tax. After this war is concluded it is quite certain that we will all have 
to readjust our taxation. None of us knows at present what taxation will be 
required. If when the War is concluded the Home Government or the British 
Treasury cannot within a reasonable period tell us how far they can consider the 
urgent appeal which has been made by all oversea countries to prevent the 
continuance of the double income tax on the same British subject, in our countries 
we will not know quite what to do. • We will have to continue to penalise British 
subjects within the British Empire — the very thing we are trying to avoid at the 
present juncture with a view to the prevention of some of these troubles which 
existed before the War and which we wish should be discontinued after the War, 
that is the consolidation of the Empire by helping our own people within the Empire 
which does not in the ordinary sense come directly under the purview of the high 

42a— 64 



84 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

officials of the Treasury — it is not their special business. Our point of view is to try- 
to bring about co-ordination within the Empire and to help the people of the Empire 
to be sufficiently strong to withstand within the citadel of the Empire the commercial 
"war which will be waged against us by enemy countries and other countries in the 
natural course trying to get the trade of the world. We will have the British 
merchant all over our Empire handicapped to a very much greater extent than the 
men in foreign countries will be even when trading with portions of the British 
Empire. It is to further this desirable policy that we want the present double 
income tax removed and want the powerful aid of the Treasury to that end. 

Now the matter is one of very great urgency indeed. When Sir Robert 
■Chalmers tells us (and I accept his statement unreservedly on the point) that the 
exigencies of the' public service here due to the War are such that the depletion of 
staffs renders it impossible for them to go into this question how, I recognise that we 
have got to wait until circumstances change and it is possible for that information to 
be furnished; but it does not relieve the gravity of the way in which it has affected 
traders all over the British Empire. You have in this country an Excess Profits Tax 
of sixty per cent, and we have in New Zealand an Excess Profits Tax of forty-five 
per cent. We have increased our income tax and you have increased yours. 
Heaven only knows what we will require before this War is ( over in the matter of 
income tax in order to pay our way and make proper provision to pay off the 
indebtedness which has been cheerfully incurred both in the British Isles and in 
the oversea countries. But there can be no doubt that on our return to New 
Zealand, at all events, while they will be loyal and true and staunch to whatever is 
required owing to the exigencies of the War and the necessities of the situation, they 
will press through the Members of Parliament upon the attention of the Government 
there this question of the double income tax which is prejudicing them in connection 
with the development of their British Empire trade. Increase and development of 
trade after the War is over is, however, essential, as after the forty-five per cent 
profits tax has gone out of existence when the War ceases, in some form the necessary 
increased taxation is to be found to enable us to pay our way with the increased 
indebtedness of a good many millions of money put upon the people there for the 
purpose of helping to wih out this War. 

I express an opinion on this point with diffidence, but I think the course that is 
suggested by Sir Robert Chalmers is, under the circumstances, the only one that can 
be followed. There must be consideration extended to the Treasury, and I think 
there will be by the people whom we represent, and by ourselves too, due to the 
circumstances which have compelled them to deplete their staffs for fighting purposes. 

Sir Robert Chalmers : Yes, it has been principally for fighting purposes. 

Sir Joseph Ward: I think we are full-hearted in our concurrence as to the 
necessity for that, and we are delighted with the way in which it has been carried 
out by the staffs* of the Departments here and in our own countries too. It appears 
to me, Mr. Long, that the Conference should pass a resolution directing the attention 
of the British Government and of the Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr. Massey and 
I have already done so personally, and probably other gentlemen at this table have 
also done so) to this old and sore story which existed prior to the War and still 
continues. I represented it on two former occasions to two Chancellors of the 
Exchequer, but then, of course, with the necessities of the purse having to be 
provided for, they could not change the incidence of taxation sufficiently to warrant 
the repeal of the double inposition. It looks to me as if this Conference should 
pass a Resolution urging upon the Chancellor of the Exchequer, from an Empire 
standpoint, that the continuance of a dual system of taxation upon a British subject, 
because he transfers part of his capital for a time from one portion of the Empire 
to the heart of the Empire should cease. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 85 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

That, particularly after the war, is going to be so heavily felt by the people that 
more of them will, in my opinion, in order to avoid the double taxation transfer their 
head offices to a neutral country. I 

Mr. Massey : They are doing it now. 

Sir Joseph Ward: It is already being done. I know of one important concern, 
and of another important concern which is well known to gentlemen here, which 
has transferred its headquarters to the United States of America. I know of men 
who at present are awaiting a decision upon this question of double income tax before 
they decide whether they are going to take a similar course or not. I do not believe 
any of then! want to go outside the confines of the British Empire, but after all in 
this world it has to be remembered that if the taxation upon great organizations with 
large capitals invested in them becomes sufficiently oppressive to make the return on 
the capital not reasonable in relation to the amount they have earned, and also taking 
into account their personal labour in normal times, it really becomes not worth their 
while to go on, and in the ordinary course they either get rid of the business, split 
it up and get other people to take it on, or they look around and see in what place they 
can get a reasonable amount of return as the result of their efforts in order to make 
it worth their while to go on with it. / 

One illustration came before me quite recently regarding an old and great Aus- 
tralian business, which disclosed a position very similar to what I have indicated. 
They are now considering, and seriously too, the removal of their head office to the 
United States. I think we have all to recognize that in the changed world which 
has been brought about by this great War it is going to press us in some respects to 
change the system of taxation which up to now has existed in different portions of 
the Empire, in the Homeland as well as in the Oversea Dominions. No system of 
taxation is agreeable. The system was not agreeable to people in pre-war days and 
it is going to bedome more oppressive than ever in the after-war days. I think it is 
only fair to say that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, when Mr. Massey and myself 
saw him, expressed his sympathy in the direction of doing what is urged here. The 
difficulties due to the War time were naturally before him and he pointed them out 
to us, and while I am very anxious to see this change, as one who wants to be fair 
both to the people in our own country and those with whom we have to deal, I person- 
ally am of the opinion that during the actual currency of this War until the British 
Chancellor of the Exchequer knows where he is going to stand at the end of the War 
he* cannot run the risk at present. Even although it is unpalatable to us and very 
unfair in its incidence to the people who are concerned, I do not believe in the present 
circumstances that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, on behalf of the British 
Government dare run the risk of giving away twenty, thirty, or forty millions of the 
revenue of this country. If it were done at the present moment it would necessitate 
the imposition of an equal amount of taxation. It would in that respect be pretty 
hard upon the people. But as soon as an inquiry can be held into this matter I am 
not only hopeful that a method may be found to relieve the British taxpayer from 
paying the double income tax, but I am very hopeful that the Treasury, with its 
wonderful resourcefulness, may, as soon after the end of the War as is possible, be 
able to advise the Chancellor of the Exchequer in time so that we should know in 
the different countries what is intended to be done in that respect, because we have 
all to shape our local taxation, when we have a knowledge of what is intended to be 
done here in connection with this double income tax. The tax is unjust and inequit- 
able. It is prejudicial to the best interests of the Empire and ought to go for ever 
as soon as possible. I am satisfied that it cannot be defended and must be done away 
with. 

I do not want to take up the time of the Conference upon the question, Sir, 
except to say that I know it has been pressed upon the members of the Government 



86 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

of New Zealand from the North Cape to Stewart Island, that is from end to end of 
the country, and there is a yery earnest and anxious feeling entertained by the 
business people also in this country — which is probably better known to you than it 
is to us — and by the business people in our countries too — that the continuance after 
the War of the old system of double income tax on a British subject within the 
-British Empire is going- in the long run to have a very disastrous effect. 

I feel it my duty upon an occasion such as this to say what I think, so that those 
who are considering the matter may have our views before them and I trust they 
will look at it from our standpoint as well as from theirs. 

Chairman : Do you mean to move a Resolution ? 

Sir Joseph Ward: No. Mr. Massey will. 

Mr. Massey : I think it is hardly fair to continue the discussion at present. 
There is a good deal to be said about this subject upon which I feel very strongly, 
and I shall probably ask the Members of the Conference to agree to a Resolution 
which should come into operation at the earliest possible moment. The Members of 
the Conference know the position with regard to finance, not exactly as well as the 
representatives of the Treasury, but generally, and we know that money must be got; 
but we do think the burden of taxation should be distributed fairly, and that 
is not the case at present. 

Mr. Rogers : Probably Canada has a stronger reason than any of the other 
Dominions. 

Chairman: Is it worth while continuing the discussion now? 

Mr. Hazen : I hope Mr. Massey and Sir Joseph Ward will prepare a Resolution 
to be submitted to the Conference on the subject, because I feel it should not be 
allowed- to drop here simply on the statement of 'Sir Robert Chalmers that the Treas- 
ury cannot do anything about it because the officials are too busy. 

Mr. Massey : No, personally I should not accept that. I understand the point 
of view of the other side as well as our point of view. I thought I had made it clear, 
I had not the faintest idea it was coming up to-day, and I had not even prepared 
a Resolution, and I have not read the correspondence which has come to me, so that 
I do not think it would be fair to people who have communicated with me, although 
I think I understand the subject, to go on with it at the present moment. 

Mr. Chamberlain : I think, if I may say so, a little too much is being put upon the 
officials. The officials of the Inland Revenue in this country are having to collect a 
taxation many times greater than what they were collecting just before the War, 
and they are having to do it with a depleted staff in consequence of the number of 
men who have been allowed to join the colours. But that is not really the whole 
difficulty. How is the Chancellor of the Exchequer himself, at the present time, to 
give his time to the recasting of the whole income tax law of the British Government? 
It .is one of the most complicated systems of taxation, depending very largely on 
judicial decision. At any time it would be a most difficult subject to deal with, and 
it is, no doubt, more difficult, and every grievance that arises is more aggravated by 
the very high rate of tax which is now in force. This double income tax grievance 
is, of course, enormously increased by the very high rates which are in force, but I 
would not like it to go forth that it is merely because the Treasury officials are too 
busy to attend to the business of the Empire that this matter is not taken in hand at 
once. I venture to say that when it is taken in hand it will require the best brains 
of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and probably of a good many other people besides, 
before anything like a satisfactory solution is arrived at; and all these people at the 
present time are working to the full extent which human nature permits. 

Sir Edward Morris: If Mr. Chamberlain means by that that the difficulty will 
be to find sources of revenue, and that the inquiry by the Treasury will be connected 
with the difficulty of finding new sources of revenue — 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 87 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Mr. Chamberlain : No, that is the least part of it. 

Sir Edward Morris: Then what about the general principle? Cannot the general 
principle be decided, and afterwards find the new source of revenue? 

Mr. Chamberlain: It is not the finding of the new sources of revenue which is 
the difficulty, though that is a difficulty, but the question of remodelling the whole of 
your Income Tax Acts. What you do in this case will bring you up at once against 
questions of the most serious consequences with other countries. I am sure any one 
who thinks about it will see that it is so. If you are going to recast the taxation as 
between ourselves and the Dominions, you will at once raise questions as regards 
our right ,to tax, and our practice of taxing foreigners resident here, or British 
income derived from foreign countries. They are very big questions. I do not want 
in the least to prejudge the decision. All I am wanting to urge is that there are 
questions which cannot be settled hurriedly, which are really questions as difficult, 
I think, as any you could find in the realm of fiscal policy. 

Mr. Massey: Where there is a will there is a way. 

Sir George Perley: If we have finished the general question, there is a special 
point I would like to bring up while the Treasury officials are here. We are all being 
urged, or all parts of the Empire are being urged, to spare as many ships as possible 
to come here and trade between this country and the various Allied countries. The 
question has arisen whether Canadian ships, for instance, which come over here, 
either voluntarily or after being requisitioned by the Canadian Government for that 
purpose, will be liable to pay the British Income Tax and the Excess Profits Tax 
here. I am informed that the Income Tax assessors say that as the agencies or 
management of these ships during the period when they are so engaged are in the 
hands of British agents, such steamers will be liable to pay these taxes here. As 
the Canadian Government is being urged to requisition ships for that purpose, and 
as the individual owners send them over to help out the situation, I hope that it 
will not be suggested that they should, under those circumstances, be liable to pay 
the Income Tax and the Excess Profits Tax here. 

Sir Robert Chalmers : In reply to that I may say that it would depend on an 
infinite number of special circumstances. Primarily, I think, speaking offhand, it 
would depend upon where the control of the business was, and where they make the 
contracts; but if you, Sir George, will address the Inland Revenue they will give 
you a very complete answer on the facts, and it could be further discussed if there 
was any trouble about it. That is not so big a question as the double income tax. 

Mr. Hazen: It is an important question. 

Chairman : Most important. 

Mr. Hazen: It is most important for this reason, that the Canadian Government 
is being requested from time to time by the British authorities to requisition ships 
which are on the Canadian Register, and the constitutional right to requisition is 
vested in Canada alone and not in the Imperial authorities. Therefore, they ask 
us to requisition these ships. In many cases we do so. There have been cases where 
we have declined to do so because we felt under the circumstances it would be too 
great an interference with the trade, which is absolutely essential to the Dominion, to 
do so. If when we requisition those ships and they come over here they are to pay 
tax into the British Exchequer, it raises a question which is a very serious one and 
one which might at times add weight in the determination of the question of whether 
we should requisition those ships or not. 

Sir Robert Chalmers : Quite so ; that would depend on the facts of any particu- 
lar case — on control and on the origin of the contract, and if there is any trouble 
about that I will promise that very careful consideration shall be given to it, but -it 
must be a practical case. 



88 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Mr. Chamberlain: Surely, this is a ease for conference between the Shipping 
Controller, the Dominions, and the Treasury; it is not a question to be dealt with 
in the case of each particular ship and on technical grounds. It is. a broad question 
of policy. The Shipping Controller is pressing for the requisitioning of ships and 
the two departments of the British Government must conform their policy the one to 
the other. 

Sir Robert Chalmers: Quite so; I am much obliged to you, Sir, for mentioning 
that. 

Sir George Perley : What I should say is that if the law should impose such 
taxation the case of New Zealand would be that if they had to pay the Excess Profits 
Tax in both places, they would be worse off than if the ship were not employed at all 
— if they had to pay sixty per cent here and forty-five per cent Excess Profits Tax in 
New Zealand. 

Sir Joseph Ward : I am very glad to tell you, Sir George, although it has nothing 
to do with the work here, that an arrangement between the Inland Revenue Depart- 
ment, the Chancellor of the Exchequer and New Zealand, which is quite satisfactory 
from our point of view, has been made and which, I understand, is to be dealt with 
in an effective way, by which we will prevent the possibility of taking 105 per cent 
out of anybody between the two of us from a man who only earns 100 per cent. 

Mr. Rogers: Are you under preferential treatment? 

Chairman: May we adjourn this and take Mr. Massey's resolution as to 
Earl Grey's scheme for a Dominion House (Agreed.) 

Earl Grey's Scheme for a Dominion House in Aldwych. 

Mr. Massey: I do not think I need detain the Conference, Mr. Long, upon this 
question. I am bringing it up on behalf of, and at the request of, Earl Grey, a 
former Governor General of Canada, and a gentleman whose name is as well known 
in the Overseas Dominions of the British Empire as in the United Kingdom itself. 
In acting for him, let me say that I am quite sure I express the opinion of the other 
Members of the Conference, as well as my own, when I say that there is no more 
ardent and enthusiastic Imperialist than the gentleman whose name I have mentioned, 
and one who has never missed an opportunity of advancing the Imperial cause. 

A few years ago Earl Grey noticed that the offices of the different Dominions and 
Dependencies of the Empire were spread all over London, to the great inconvenience 
of the British people and of the people from the different Dominions themselves. I 
do not need to go through the list, although I have it here, but I will just take a few 
of them. Canada, for instance, had its offices in Victoria Street; New Brunswick 
in Southampton Street; Prince Edward Island in Westminster; New South Wales 
in Cannon Street; Victoria in Melbourne Place; Queensland in the Strand; Western 
Australia in Victoria Street; New Zealand in Victoria Street; British Columbia in 
Salisbury House, and Ontario in the Strand. Earl Grey and a number of gentlemen 
acting with him, who thought as he did, conceived the idea of making use of a most 
magnificent site right in the centre of London for the purpose of what we have been 
in the habit of calling a great Dominion House — a great Dominion edifice — in which 
the whole of the Dominions, and, possibly, the Dependencies of the Empire, might 
have their offices at which their representatives would always be present — I am now 
speaking of their commercial representatives — and on a site which would be a great 
convenience to the people in the heart of the Empire itself and to the visiting citizens 
from the other Dominions anl Dependencies. The site they had in view is known 
as the Aldwych site. It is the property of the London County Council, and the sug- 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 89 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

gestion put forward was that it should be leased to those gentlemen who were interest- 
ing themselves in the Dominion Offices at, not exactly a nominal rent, but a reasonable 
rent — one they could afford to pay. 

I may mention here the names of the provisional directors, beginning with the 
Right Honourable the Earl Grey, His Grace the Duke of Norfolk, Mr. George Beet- 
ham, of New Zealand (a very prominent citizen of New Zealand, trusted and well 
known in every part of it) ; Mr. Harry E. Brittain — I do not think I need describe 
him to members of the Conference; Mr. George McLaren Brown, a Canadian, I under- 
stand; the Bight Hon. Lord Chelmsford; at that time Sir John Henniker Heaton was 
also taking an active interest in it, but he has gone to " the bourne from which no 
traveller returns," and we unfortunately shall not have his assistance in this or in any 
other respect; the Bight Hon. Sir Leander Starr Jameson, "of South Africa; the 
Bight Hon. the Earl of Plymouth, and Colonel Sir Edward Ward, Baronet. Those 
were the provisional directors. 

The option obtained from the London County Council was to secure from the 
Council a building agreement for a lease of the whole of the site which I have 
indicated for a term of ninety-nine years from the 25th December, 1913, or any other 
date to be arranged, at a rent the particulars of which are set out in the book before 
ine,* and which I do not need to enter into at present. Quoting from the proposals 
of Earl Grey and the provisional directors, they say — and I am only going to quote 
very briefly indeed : " The Dominion House which it contemplates would be an active 
living part of the Imperial organism. It would be one of the great realities of the 
Constitution — as quickening to every thoughtful mind as Westminster Abbey, the 
Houses of Parliament, or the courts of justice. Under its great tower men would 
know that dominions remoter than the Pole were discharging some of the great 
functions of the various economy. All those connections of trade, emigration, and 
finance that unite the Dominions with the Motherland would radiate to and from this 
impressive focus." 

Its aims are thus stated by Earl Grey in a letter to the Improvements Committee 
of the London County Council : " It would be possible .... to concentrate on 
the Aldwych site the Dominion Government Offices, now widely distributed in 

different part's of London It would also be possible to focus the attention 

of the home consumer more effectively on the quality of the products grown in our 

Oversea Dominions It would also be possible to include in the buildings 

tcf be erected on the Aldwych site accommodation which would meet, not only the 
official requirements of the Dominion Governments, but the commercial and social 
needs of their respective peoples." Then the pamphlet goes on : " The second purpose 
— that of a Permanent Exhibition of Empire products — is of well defined value, both 
for the extension of Dominion trade in the British market and for the guidance of 
emigration." Then there are a number of particulars given with regard to the option 
given, whrch I am prepared to read, but which I do not think it necessary for me 
to repeat. 

The proposal, I may say, attracted a very great deal of attention, not only in the 
United Kingdom, but in every part of the Dominions, and there has been supplied to 
me a list of leading articles and some of the leaders from a very large number of the 
principal papers in the three kingdoms. I am not going to quote them, but I am quite 
prepared to show them to any one who takes sufficient interest in the matter to read 
them. Amongst others which supported the proposal were the Times, the Daily Tele- 
graph, the Morning Post, the Daily News, the Daily Chronicle, the Standard, the 
Pall Mall, the Financial News, the Northern Whig, and the Globe. I have read the 
articles and they all strongly supported the proposal at the time it was put forward, 
and I do not know that they have changed their opinions since that date; but if the 
press represents public opinion — and I am not prepared to admit that any individual 

* Entitled " The Dominion House." 



90 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

paper represents public opinion, because very often it does not — I am prepared to say- 
that when such a large proportion of the papers of any country expresses an opinion 
in favour of some proposal, they must undoubtedly have public opinion behind them. 
I do not think there is any going back from that. 

I am not going to follow this point further. I do not wish to take up the time 
of the Conference, and I am sure Earl Grey would not desire me to do so. I may, 
however, call the attention of members of the Conference to the fact, because it has 
been admitted that' since the proposal was first put -forward in 1913 the position has 
changed to a certain extent. The war itself has brought about an enormous change, 
and I know perfectly well that even if this proposal were proceeded with it is impos- 
sible to do so during the war period. But there have been other changes. The 
Government of the Commonwealth of Australia have erected very elaborate buildings 
on their own account for the purposes of the Australian Government, and I do not 
know, because unfortunately we have not a representative of Australia present, 
whether they would be prepared to dispose of the buildings which they have erected 
and into which they have just entered and take up along with the other Dominions a 
scheme such as that proposed by Earl Grey and his friends. I am not able to express 
any opinion or to make any statement with regard to that point. New Zealand has 
done the same thing. We were sadly cramped for room in the offices we formerly 
occupied in Victoria street, and it became urgently necessary that we should make a 
change in view of the increasing business of the Dominion and the increasing number 
of the staff. Arrangements were entered into some two or three years ago, prior to the 
war really, for a site in the Strand. Probably members of the Conference will have 
noticed that site, because I am glad to say that, owing to the attractions arranged 
by the High Commissioner and his staff, it attracts a good deal of attention from the 
people passing backwards and forwards, and especially from the Dominion visitors, 
not forgetting the soldiers. Very convenient offices have been erected there for the 
purposes of the New Zealand Government and we are already in possession. I do not 
say that the Strand site is the best site in London; probably it is not. Personally, I 
would have liked a corner site or some more commanding site, but still I am bound 
to say it is a good position and the offices are very convenient. Speaking as head of 
the Government of New Zealand, I could not commit that Government or Parliament 
to give up these offices even for the purpose of joining in such a proposal as that put 
forward by Earl Grey; it is a matter which would have to be dealt with in New Zea- 
land, and I cannot possibly deal with it here. 

I do not need to follow the position out further. I said I would not take up the 
time of the Conference for any lengthy period, and I have not done so. I have 
simply placed the bare facts before the Conference, and I should like to hear the 
opinions of the gentlemen present. But I would like, before leaving the matter, just 
to remind members again that this is an Imperial conception brought forward for 
Imperial purposes, and, if it had been possible to give effect to it, I believe it would 
have been a very good thing to have done. 

Mr. Eogers: Under normal conditions it might have been a very laudable 
undertaking and very desirable in many ways, but it was a very expensive proposal 
and one to which we gave grave consideration in Canada, but were never able to 
arrive at any conclusion that it would be wise to undertake the responsibility of 
joining in such a proposal as that which is presented, and especially now, as Mr. 
Massey has said, in view of war conditions, I do not think it would be possible for us 
to give it much consideration in the hope of being able to join, at the present time at 
all events. Canada is probably in a worse position for accommodation in England 
than any of the other Overseas Dominions. We are very anxious to find a place which 
would be a suitable home for the Dominion of Canada, but I think we would have to 
regard this proposal as altogether too large for our immediate necessities. When we 
do find a home we will probably follow the example of the other Dominions and find a 
location of s our own. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 91 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Sir Robert Borden : I concur in all that Mr. Massey has said with regard to 
the fine services which Earl Grey has rendered to the Empire. I also appreciate 
the fine conception to which he has devoted so much time and energy, of having a 
building in London in which the representatives and staffs of the various Dominions 
should be housed, and which, by reason of its commanding site, and also by reason 
of the edifice itself, would be impressive to all those who had the opportunity of 
seeing it. But the situation was complicated, in the first instance, by the fact that 
Australia had already made arrangements for the erection of a large building on 
a site immediately adjoining, and therefore the question came down to a consideration 
of what New Zealand, South Africa, Newfoundland and Canada would be prepared 
to do. I am under the impression that it would be impracticable to proceed with 
any effective consideration of the proposal at present. It may also be said, from the 
standpoint of the various States and Provinces, that a variety of sites where the 
opportunities to emigrants are set forth is attended with certain advantages because 
a greater number of people may become acquainted with the resources and oppor- 
tunities in the various Oversea Dominions than would be possible if they were all 
housed on one site. In Canada we have various Provinces with sites selected in 
commanding positions, sometimes not very near each other, and in that way, the 
advantages offered to persons who have in mind emigration to Canada are perhaps 
made known to a greater number of persons than would be possible otherwise. 
However, the conception which Earl -Grey had was undoubtedly a very fine one, and 
too much credit cannot be given to him for placing the proposal in an effective way 
before all the Dominions concerned. I am inclined to think that it is not a proposal 
which we could take up at present with any idea of making much progress with it, 
and I agree that it should be deferred at present. 

Mr. Massey : The difficulty is with regard io an extension of the option. 

Mr. HIazen: One of the Canadian Provinces, British Columbia, has already 
erected a very handsome building of its own and would not be disposed, I fancy, to 
come into a scheme of that sort. 

Chairman: If you do not desire to take it up now, I imagine all you can do 
is to adjourn it sine die. 

Mr. Massey: No. I should like to get the opinion of General Smuts, as repre- 
senting South Africa, and then I propose, after having heard the various opinions, 
to draft a motion thanking Earl Grey for his conception, and for all he has done, and 
saying the time has not yet come. 

Mr. Hazen: I do not think we should pass a Resolution which would convey to 
Earl Grey the impression that we are in favour of, or endorse, the idea. If we do 
that it might encourage him to go on and get a further option upon this site. 

Mr. Massey: We can make that quite clear. 

Mr. Hazetsi : I am not at all prepared to say that even if the times were different 
and if they were normal the Government of Canada would be prepared to go in for a 
scheme of this sort. I think in the first place there is doubt as to the site being a 
good site, but apart from that I know there is in Canada a public opinion along this 
line, that it is better that the different Provinces should have homes and headquarters 
of their own rather than that they should all be grouped under the same roof. I am 
not going to elaborate the reasons for that, but I know there is an opinion of that sort. 
I do not know that it is the opinion of the majority, but there is quite a strong public 
opinion to that effect. Therefore, whatever we do, I do not think we should do any- 
thing which would encourage Earl Grey in the idea that when the war is over this 
scheme would be proceeded with, or that we are in favour of proceeding with it. 

Chairman: Mr. Massey has brought the matter before the Conference, but 
has told us that New Zealand has its own office and that he is not prepared on behalf 
of the Government of New Zealand to fall in with the suggestion without consulting 



92 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

his Government. The Commonwealth of Australia have established a very fine 
building — I was present at the opening of it — and I do not know whether they would 
consider abandoning that building in order to take part in the new scheme. Canada 
takes the view that they could not commit themselves, and that it would not be fair 
to Earl Grey. Therefore, cannot we deal with it by Resolution now ? 

Mr. Massey: I want to thank Earl Grey. 

Sir Edward Morris: I think a Resolution thanking Earl Grey would be about 
as far as we can go. I agree with Mr. Hazen that it would be very unfair to keep the 
thing in the air any longer. 

Chairman: It has nothing to do with us; it is a matter for the Dominions. 

Mr. Rogers: I agree with that proposed Resolution. 

Chairman: How long are they going to keep the site open? 

Mr. Massey: I think the time is about up now. \ 

General Smuts : They had an option for three years. 

Mr. Hazen: That was the option first, and then there was an extension of that 
option in the hope that something might come of it. 

General Smuts: I do not think we should in our Resolution encourage the 
matter. 

Mr. Massey : The option was for three years from the 24th June, 1913. 

Chairman: Then it is up now. 

Sir Joseph Ward: I think we ought to thank Earl Grey for his offer, and state 
that the Conference cannot see their way to deal with it. 

Chairman: I think he ought to be allowed to realize it. I feel we ought to let 
Earl Grey and those co-operating with him know the view of the Conference. 

Sir Eobert Borden : If Mr. Massey would give his views on the Pacific question 
some of us could draft the Resolution with regard to the Dominion House. 



Chairman : The suggested Dominion House Resolution is as follows : — 

"The Conference, in expressing to Earl Grey its deep appreciation and 
warm thanks for the great interest that he has taken in the proposal to secure 
the Aldwych site and to erect thereon a building suitable for the purposes of 
the Dominions, considers that it is not practicable to proceed with the proposal 
under existing conditions or in the immediate future." (Agreed.) 

Adjourned to Monday next at half-past ten o'clock. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 ' 93 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

ELEVENTH DAY. 
Monday, 23rd April, 1917. 

The Imperial War Conference met at the 'Colonial Office at 10.30 a.m. 

present : 

The Right Honourable Walter H. Long, M.P., Secretary of State for the Colonies 

(Chairman of the Conference). 

The Right Honourable Sir Albert H. Stanley, M.P., President of the 

Board of Trade. 

The Right Honourable C. Addison, M.D., M.P., Minister of Munitions. • 

Canada. 

The Right Honourable Sir R. Borden, G.C.M.G., Prime Minister. 

The Honourable Sir G. H. Perley, K.C.M.G., Minister of Overseas Military 

Forces. 
The Honourable R. Rogers, Minister of Public Works. 
The Honourable J. D. Hazen, Minister of Marine and Fisheries and Minister of 

the Naval Service. 

New Zealand. 

The Right Honourable Sir Joseph Ward, Bart., K.C.M.G., Minister of Finance. 

South Africa. 

Lieutenant-General the Right. Honourable J. C. Smuts, Minister of Defence. 

Newfoundland. 

The Right Honourable Sir E. P. Morris, K.C.M.G., Prime Minister. 

India. 

The Right Honourable A. Chamberlain, Secretary of State for India. 
Mr. H. C. M. Lambert, C.B., Secretary to the Conference. 
Mr. E. J. Harding, Junior Assistant Secretary to the Conference. 

there were also present : 

Sir G. V. Fiddes, G.C.M.G., C.B., Permanent Under Secretary of State for the 

Colonies. 
Mr. A. D. Steel-Maitland, M.P., Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for 

the Colonies. 
The Right Honourable Lord Islington, G.C.M.G., D.S.O., Under Secretary of 

State for India. 
The Right Honourable Sir R. Chalmers, G.C.B., Permanent Secretary to the 

Treasury.' 
Sir L. Worthington-Evans, M.P., Parliamntary Secretary, Ministry of Munitions. 
Sir H. Llewellyn Smith, K.C.B., Permanent Secretary, Board of Trade. 
Brigadier-General F. A. G. Ware, C.M.G., Director of Graves Registration and 

Enquiries. 
Mr. J., S. Risley, C.B., Legal Adviser, Colonial Office. 



94 " IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Mr. H. Fountain, C.B., C.M.G., Assistant Secretary, Commercial Department, 

Board of Trade. 
Sir W. H. Clark, K.C.S.I., C.M.G., Comptroller-General of the Commercial 

Intelligence Department, Board of Trade. 
Mr. C. W. Fielding, Chairman of the Metals Economy Committee, Ministry of 

Munitions. 
Mr. P. Ashley, Board of Trade. 
Captain J. B. Brooke, B.G.A., War Office. 
Lieut.-Colonel W. Dally Jones, Assistant Secretary to the" War Cabinet, 

and 
Private Secretaries. 

Care of Soldiers' Graves. < 

Chairman: We begin this morning with the Draft Charter relating to Graves, 
in which certain changes have been made in order to meet the views of the Conference 
expressed the other day. Some of the changes are made in order to deal with questions 
raised by the representatives of India. Then some subsections have been introduced 
to enable the Commission to acquire and hold sites for the erection of permanent 
memorials, which may not be placed in actual cemeteries, but on such places as Vimy 
Bidge, High Wood, or Dedville Wood. The number of members other than official 
members, which now stands at " six " in Part III, Clause 3, is proposed to be changed 
to " eight." It is thought expedient to obtain the consent of the Conference for making 
that number " eight," if necessary, in order to avoid being absolutely bound by the 
smaller number of " six." Lord Derby, the Secretary of State for War, had intended 
to be present to-day, but he has been suddenly prevented from coming, and he has asked 
me to express his very great regret to the Conference that he cannot be here, and to 
tell the Conference that, had he been here, he proposed to call their attention to what 
he and his advisers anticipate may happen, namely, that later on there may be a good 
deal of friction in regard to rival suggestions for monuments and memorials upon either 
artistic or achitectural grounds, and on matters of taste. After a great deal of dis- 
cussion and consideration Lord Derby proposed to ask the Conference if tbey would 
agree that the Director of the National Gallery and the Director of the Boyal Botanical 
Gardens, Kew, should be asked to let us avail ourselves of their services; and it is 
proposed, if the Conference agree, to nominate them among the eight members. Lord 
Derby intended to have made that statement himself, and begged me to make it for 
him, and to say that, if the Conference thought fit to approve, it would be of material 
advantage to the Commission to have the services of those two gentlemen. They are 
very well known, I think, throughout the Empire, because whoever fills the office is 
generally selected on account o 't knowledge of art, in one case, and of the best kind 
of planting and general arrange, it of places like cemeteries in the other. 

Mr. Hazen : I went over this Charter to some extent with General Ware on 
Saturday, but these amendments I have seen for the first time this morning. Yesterday 
I wrote a letter after I left General Ware calling his attention to a change which I 
thought would have to be made in Part VI. I suggest an amendment* there in Clause 
1, subsection (1). That clause reads now " To receive all funds which may be granted 
annually or otherwise by the Legislature of any part of Our Dominions or any of Our 
Protectorates." 

Chairman: Would it not be better to take the amendments as they come and 
then we shall come to yours in due course? 
Mr. Hazen : Perhaps it would be better. 

General Ware : The amendments which were made as a result of the instructions 
given by the last meeting of the Imperial War Conference have been introduced into 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 95 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

the Draft Charter and the revised Draft Charter lias heen circulated. Those amend- 
ments have therefore been seen by all Members of the Conference. There are further 
amendments which were circulated yesterday or the day before which do not appear 
in the revised Charter. These amendments were drafted to meet the wishes of the 
representatives of India, who pointed out that it was essential that the word " Graves " 
should cover cremation grounds as the great majority of Hindus are cremated after 
death, and not buried, and the site of the funeral pyre has a sanctity of its awn in 
Hindu sentiment. At the same time these amendments make it possible, as Mr. Long 
has pointed out, for us to hold or acquire sites not in cemeteries for the erection of 
permanent memorials. We had in view such places as Mr. Long has mentioned. As 
far as I can see no question arises on which there is likely to be disagreement with 
regard to these amendments, as they are perfectly simple and straightforward. 

Mr Chamberlain: I do not know whether the Conference would think it 
necessary to move each of these amendments separately which have already been 
circulated in typewritten form, or whether the Members of the Conference, for the 
sake of brevity, would consent to have them moved en bloc. 

Sir Joseph Ward: Yes, after we have gone through them. 

Mr. Hazen : That would save time. 

Chairman : The first amendment is in italics in the first introductory paragraph, 
and I believe nothing arises on that. The next amendment is in italics in the next 
paragraph, namely, the words, "Belgium, in the Gallipoli Peninsula, in Mesopotamia, 
in parts of Africa not within Our Dominions, or in any other foreign territory." 

Sir Joseph Ward : That meets the point which was raised in the general discussion, 
and is perfectly satisfactory as far as New Zealand is concerned. 

Mr. Hazen : We mention Belgium ; why should we not mention France ? 

Sir Robert Borden : It has been mentioned before. 

Mr. Hazen: Yes, that is true. 

General Ware : It is settled in France already. 

Mr. Hazen : Yes, that is all right. 

Chairman : Then in the list of the proposed members, in conformity with the 
instructions of the last meeting of the Conference, the words in italics are inserted as 
to the nominees of the Dominion Governments 1 , and the words below naming the High 
Commissioners are struck out. 

Sir Joseph Ward : If you are going to insert the Director of the National Gallery 
and the Director of the Royal Botanical Gardens, Kew, do you not want to make "five" 
into "seven" ? 

General Ware : It is not proposed that they shoul 3 -he "official" members, but that 
they should be two of the additional six, or eight, n ers which are referred to later 
on. 

Chairman: Then in Part II there are new words in italics: "In the event of a 
vacancy in the office of President, from whatever cause arising, such vacancy shall be 
filled," the words struck out being "On the resignation or death," and so on, because 
otherwise the wording would be rather blunt. In Part III, Clause % the word "persons" 
is inserted instead of "person" ; and the words "Governments" of Canada, Australia, 
New Zealand, South Africa, and" come in. Those alterations are consequential. 

Sir Joseph Ward : Do you not require to add "the British Government" as well 
as " the Governments of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and Newfound- 
land " ? 

Sir Robert Borden: Their appointments are designated already. 
Mr. Chamberlain : They are included in "the persons for the time being holding 
the offices hereinbefore mentioned." 



96 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Mr. JIazen :' Yes, they are set out at the top of the second page. . 

Chairman: Then in Part IV, "Organisation," in Clause 2., subsection (2), it is 
stated that "The Vice-Chairman of the Commission shall be appointed by the Com- 
mission": and in Clause 3, subsection (2), "The Secretary and Assistant Secretaries 
shall be appointed by the President." 

Sir Eobert Borden : There are some persons in the service of the Oversea Domin- 
ions who have rendered very effective work in these matters already. What is the 
proposal with regard to the Assistant Secretaries? This provision directs that they 
shall be appointed by the President. That means really that they would be appointed 
by the persons', whoever they may be, who direct the work of the Commission. What 
is the proposal with regard to their appointment? 

General Ware: That has not yet been thoroughly thought out. 

Sir Robert Borden: I direct attention to this in order that it may be taken into 
consideration. That is my whole object. 

Chairman: Do you object to the words? 

Sir Robert,. Borden: I have no objection to the words. I merely call attention to 
the fact that in the Dominions there are certain persons eminently qualified to assist 
in the work of the Secretariat, and I desire to point out that it would be inadvisable 
to select the Assistants entirely outside the Dominions. 

General Ware : Yes, but by "in the Dominions" you do not mean people who are 
not actually here at the moment; they might be Canadians who are actually at work 
in London, I take it? 

Sir Robert Borden : Yes- 
Sir Joseph Ward: I suppose that applies to all the Dominions? 

Sir Robert Borden: I made it in that sense. 

Chairman: Will you take a note of that; because it is very important? 

General Ware: Most important. 

Chairman: Then in Part IV, Clause 5, subsection (3) the word "Official" has been 
inserted instead of "ex-officio." 

Mr. Chamberlain: And in Part V, Clause 1,, subsection (4), in line 2, the word "in" 
should be "of", and the words run "officers or men of Our said Forces." 

Sir Joseph Ward : That is quite right. 

Mr. Chamberlain : Then subsection (4), in the same clause, add the following new 
subsection : — 

"To acquire and hold land for the purpose of providing or erecting perma- 
nent memorials elsewhere than in such cemeteries as aforesaid in honour of 
any officers or men of Our said forces who shall have fallen in the present War." 

General Ware : That also covers the Indian question. 

Chairman: Is it your pleasure that those words should be added? {Agreed?) 

Chairman: Next, after subsection (8) of Clause 2 of Part V, insert the following: 

"To take such steps as may be necessary under the local law of the territory 
concerned to enable the Commission to hold any land other than any such 
cemetery as aforesaid for the purpose of providing or erecting any permanent 
memorial in honour of officers or men of Our said forces who shall have fallen 
in the present War." 

Mr. Chamberlain : Yes, and the remaining subsections in this clause are to be 
renumbered as (10) to (15). 
Chairman: Yes. (Agreed.) 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 97 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Chairman : After subsection (6) of Clause 3 of Part V, insert at the end the fol- 
lowing : — 

"In the construction of this part of Our Charter the word 'cemetery' may- 
or shall include a Hindu or other non-Christian cremation ground, and any 
action which may be taken in regard to a cemetery under the provisions of this 
Our Charter may be taken in regard to such a cremation ground in so far as 
may be consistent with Hindu or such other religious customs as may be appli- 
cable in the case of any such cremation ground." 

Agreed. 

Chairman : Then in Part VI, "Financial," subsection (2) of Clause 1 comes out. 
Mr. Hazen : There is another amendment required there in subsection (1) of para- 
graph 1 of Part VI. It says: — 

"To receive all funds which may b|e granted annually or otherwise by the 
Legislature of any part of Our Dominions or any of Our Protectorates." 

It does not provide for the reception of any funds which may be granted by the 
Parliament of Great Britain. I drew an amendment as to that, which I sent to General 
Ware, and perhaps he might read it. 

Mr. Chamberlain: But when His Majesty speaks of "Our Dominions" it surely 
includes Great Britain? 

Mr. Hazen : You speak of the Parliament of Great Britain and of the Parliament 
of Canada. 

Sir Eobert Borden : " Legislature " does include Parliament, although " Legis- 
lature " is sometimes used in a narrow sense. 

Mr. Hazen: In Canada we speak of the Parliament of Canada and of the Legis- 
latures of the different provinces. 

Mr. Chamberlain: Yes, but I do not think we speak of the Parliament in any 
Crown Colonies or Protectorates. 

Sir Robert Borden : I think the word " Legislature " is used in two senses. There 
is the broad sense in which it includes all Parliaments and all legislative bodies, and 
then there is the minor sense in which it is used sometimes in contra-distinction to 
Parliament, particularly in our Dominion, where we have the Provincial Legislatures 
and the Federal Parliament. I think where you use the term " Legislature " in respect 
of all " Our Dominions " it would probably include the Parliament of the United 
Kingdom. 

Mr. Hazen : This clause uses the word " Dominions " — " the Legislature of any 
part of Our Dominions." You do not speak of Great Britain as a Dominion. 

Chairman: It is part of the King's Dominions. 

Sir Bobert Borden: The King's Dominions are included. 

Mr. Hazen: And the Protectorates. 

General Ware : Would the point be met if the word " Dominions " were changed 
to " Empire " ? That would cover the second part. 

Chairman: "Any part of Our Empire." 

Sir Joseph Ward : That would do it absolutely. 

Mr. Hazen : Yes. 

Sir Edward Morris : I do not know that there is any legal definition of " Empire." 

Sir Bobert Borden : We used it once in a statute in Canada, and I looked up at 
the time the question whether or not it had any legal meaning. The word " Empire " 
has no legal meaning at all. It has been used in one statute only in Canada. 

42a— 7 



98 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Sir Edward Morris : It is better to keep in the word " Dominions." 

Chairman : You had better keep to the word " Dominions." 

Sir Eobert Borden : The use of the word " Dominions " is technically correct. 

Sir Joseph Ward : The word " Our," of course, means the King. 

Sir Robert Borden : The King is speaking. 

Sir George Perley : I would like to see the word " Parliament " put in there. To 
have the Parliament of the United Kingdom as a Legislature is rather unusual, it 
seems to me. 

Sir Eobert Borden : Why ? The term " Legislature " includes in its broad sense 
all bodies which carry on legislative functions. There is absolutely no doubt about 
that. It is also used in a narrower sense, particularly in Canada. 

General Ware: That was the view of the draftsman, who went into these points 
very carefully. I am not a lawyer, Sir George Perley. The draftsman advised that 
it was used in the broadest possible sense on purpose to cover this point. 

Sir Robert Borden : I prefer it as it is. 

Mr. Hazen : The amendment I suggested is something like this : " which may be 
granted annually or otherwise by the Parliament of Great Britain or the Parliaments 
and Legislatures of any part of Our Dominions." I must say that " Legislature " is 
used by us in a more restricted sense than the term " Parliament." I have not heard 
the Parliament of the United Kingdom termed as a " Legislature," though in the broad 
sense it may be so. » • • 

Chairman : I think it is rather risky to make these changes. It is really a question 
of draftsmanship and interpretation. The War Office have had the best advice they 
can get and I am inclined to leave it to the draftsman. 

General Ware: I have carefully noted the views of the Conference, and if it is 
necessary to make the words clearer it can be done, but is it not a little risky to embark 
upon drafting ourselves? I cannot express an opinion myself without consulting the 
draftsman. 

Mr. Hazen : Some of us have had experience of drafting legislation. 

Chairman : Yes, I have drafted a good deal, but the more I have drafted the more 
wary I have become of interfering with the draftsman. 

Sir Robert Borden: I should like the expression to stand as it is at present. I 
think the word " Legislature " is broad enough to include the Parliaments and the 
legislative bodies, whatever they may be; all bodies which exercise the functions of 
legislation. 

Mr. Chamberlain : I read it, as Sir Robert Borden does, as covering the legislative 
authority, be it Parliament or be it anything else. 

Chairman : There is no question about the word " Legislature " being quite right 
as far as New Zealand is concerned. How it applies in Canada is another question. 

Sir Robert Borden : We use the name " Legislature " for the legislative authori- 
ties of the various provinces as distinguished from the term " Parliament," which is 
restricted there to the federal legislative authority ; but that is only a minor use of the 
term and it would not affect this draft. 

Chairman : I should think, as this is all on record, as it will be now, it might be 
left at that. 

Mr. Hazen : Yes. 

Chairman: Then subsection (2) of Clause 1 of Part VI goes out, subsection (3) 
is amended as shown in the revised draft charter, and the remaining subsections of 
Clause 1 of Part VI, are renumbered. Then in Part VIII, Clause 3, the words shown in 
italics in the revised draft charter are inserted and the other words go out; in line 6, 
however, the word " Dominions " should be " Empire " — " such parts of Our Empire." 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 99 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Mr. Hazen: Why is the word "Empire" used there? Why do you prefer that 
there if you think it should not be the word before ? 

Chairman : We never use the word " Empire " here. We talk about " Our 
Dominions" to cover everything. 

General Ware : " Dominions " does not cover Protectorates ; that is the technical 
difficulty. 

Sir Robert Borden: Then why not use the same word in that clause as in sub- 
section (1) of clause 1 of Part VI? 

Mr. Chamberlain : I think " any part of our Dominions " is quite sufficient. The 
self-governing Dominions are, of course, the Dominions represented by the gentlemen 
who are here; but the King's Dominions are all the territory over which he hold sway,, 
surely. 

Mr. Hazen : If it is not right here, it is not right in the other place which we have' 
just been discussing. I always understood that "Dominions" had reference to the 
Dominions overseas as distinguished from Great Britain and Ireland. 

Mr. Rogers : Why not say " parts of Our Dominions and any of Our Protector- 
ates " ? 

Mr. Chamberlain : I suspect the alteration may have been made in order to cover 
the case of India, which is not habitually described as a " Dominion." 

General Ware : Partly. 

Mr. Chamberland : But it is part of His Majesty's Dominions, and if that be true 
of India it is equally true surely of the other non-self-governing parts of the Empire 
which, although they may not be Dominions by themselves, are part of His Majesty's 
Dominions, and His Majesty may properly speak of them as " Our Dominions." 

Sir Robert Borden : Why not say, as before, " such parts of Our Dominions or 
Protectorates as are represented on the Commission " ? 

General Ware: Then comes' the question as to whether the Protectorates are 
represented. 

Sir Robert Borden: It does not follow that they are; the phrase is "as are 
represented on the Commission or have made grants." 

Mr. Hazen: But the Protectorates are not represented on the Commission. 

Sir Robert Borden: I understand that, perfectly. 

Mr. Hazen : Why not say " such parts as are not represented " ? 

Sir Robert Borden : It is in the disjunctive — " such parts of Our Dominions or 
Protectorates as are represented on the Commission or have made grants." 

Sir Joseph Ward: Is not the point that they want to have the Protectorates 
provided for though they are not represented at all? 

Sir Robert Borden: This does provide for it. 

Sir Joseph Ward : If you say " such Protectorates as are represented," you may 
exclude others that are not. 

Sir Robert Borden : " Or have made grants." It is disjunctive. If they come 
within any of the conditions they are entitled to a copy of the report. 

Chairman : I would respectfully suggest that we need not discuss this because 
the only real question concerned is the transmission of copies. The Secretary of 
State represents the Crown Colonies, and he has only to ask for as many copies as he 
requires and he will get them and can send them wherever he thinks necessary. 

Sir Joseph Ward: The point is not material. 

Mr. Chamberlain : I think the wording ought to follow the same language, if 
I may say so, as in subsection 1 of Clause 1 of Part VI, which we were discussing, 
just now. 

42a— 7^ 



100 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Chairman: Yes, the Dominions and Protectorates. 
Sir Robert Borden : " Or Protectorates " you must say. , 

General Ware : May I take it that it is an instruction that the draftsman make 
an alteration so that these two clauses agree? 

Mr. Hazen : I would like to move this Resolution : 

" That words be added to the Charter to this effect : That the Imperial 
War Graves Commission be requested as soon as possible after their appoint- 
ment and organization to prepare an estimate of the probable cost of carrying 
on the work entrusted to them and to submit the same to the Governments of 
the United Kingdom and Oversea Dominions with their recommendation as to 
the proportion that should be borne by each." 

Chairman : Mr. Hazen moves that Resolution. 

Sir Joseph Ward: Do you desire that it should be included in the Charter, 
Mr. Hazen? 

Mr. Hazen : That was my suggestion. 

Sir Joseph Ward : If so, it ought not to be a request. 

Mr. Hazen : It should be " directed " instead of " requested." 

Sir Robert Borden : Would it not be better not to put the words in the Charter 
but simply to pass a Resolution which would be observed by those responsible for the 
carrying out of the Trust? They seem to me rather inappropriate for the Charter. 
1 think it is a most necessary provision and I am entirely in accord with it, but the 
question is whether it is appropriate to be inserted in the Charter or whether it should 
be recorded as a Resolution of this Conference. Personally it seems to me that the 
latter course would be the better. 

Mr. Hazen : Well, it could be done in that way. Leave out the words " That 
words be added to the Charter " and put " Resolved that the Imperial War Graves 
Commission be requested as soon as possible." 

Chairman: It ought to be a Resolution of the Conference. 

Mr. Hazen: Yes. 

Chairman : Then you want to strike out the words "That words be added to the 
Charter to this effect." 

Mr. Hazen : Yes ; as follows : — 

" That the Imperial War Graves Commission be requested, as soon as 
possible after their appointment and organization, to prepare an estimate of 
the probable cost of carrying on the work entrusted to them, and to submit the 
same to the Governments of the United Kingdom and Oversea Dominions 
with their recommendation as to the proportion that should be borne by each." 

Mr.. Hazen: Yes. 

(Agreed.) 

General Ware: In Part III., Clause 3, Lord Derby suggests that we should not 
be bound by the number "six." If it is necessary to fix a number, we suggest that 
that number should be eight. I take it that was also the opinion expressed at the last 
meeting of the Conference. 

• Sir Joseph Ward: Does that mean that if the Director of the National Gallery 
and the Director of the Royal Botanical Gardens, Kew, are included it would be 
eight still? 

General Ware : Yes. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 101 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Sir Joseph Ward: You want to limit it to that? 

General Ware : No, we do not want to limit it ; we want it to be as the Confer- 
ence suggests. , < 

Chairman : Why fix any number at all ? 

Sir Robert Borden : Will the General be good enough to tell us the precise con- 
stitution of the Commission as it stands at present ? There are four from the United 
Kingdom, and they are designated here as persons holding official positions. Then 
there are five persons from the Oversea Dominions who are to be appointed by their 
Governments — that is nine. Then you propose by Clause 3 of Part III. to appoint 
six others. You have mentioned two who will probably be selected, the Director of 
the National Gallery and the Director of Kew Gardens. 

General Ware: Yes. Then it was suggested by the Prince of Wales's Minute 
that among the unofficial members there should be " the present Director of Graves 
Registration and Inquiries, and the two Officers Commanding the Graves Registration 
Units in France and in the East respectively." That makes three more. 

Sir Robert Borden : That makes five in all. 

General Ware: And, as the wording stands now, only one appointment is left. 
We want a little more freedom. There is a question whether there should be a Naval 
representative. We are also very anxious that General Macready personally should 
be nominated to this Commission. , 

Sir Robert Borden: To what extent do you desire to increase the number? 

General Ware: Eight would cover it, 

Mr. Hazen: Do not get your Commission too large and unwieldy. 

Sir Robert Borden: I suppose the management will be carried on by a few 
persons in the final result. 

Mr. Hazen : That is always the way. 

Sir Joseph Ward: Is it contemplated, for instance, that a position may arise 
that a number of Italians are buried in the cemeteries which are covered by this 
Charter, and that Italy may desire to have a representative? 

General Ware: Those questions we should meet by Advisory Committees or 
Agencies. These are provided for in Part IV. 

Sir Robert Borden : You are not giving the Commission an International char- 
acter in any respect? 

General Ware : No, except by arrangements with the Foreign Governments under 
Part IV. 

Sir Robert Borden: Personally I have no objection to increasing the number to 
eight. 

Mr. Chamberlain: Sir Robert Borden has mentioned four representatives of the 
Home Government. I would like to say that the Secretary of State for India will sit 
on this Commission, not as a representative of the Home Government, but as the repre- 
sentative of special Indian interests. 

Sir Robert Borden : Yes. 

Chairman : And the Secretary of" State for the Colonies will sit as special repre- 
sentative of the Crown Colonies, because the Dominions are all represented themselves. 

Sir Robert Borden : I was not criticising. 

Mr. Chamberlain: I only made my observation in order to make my position 
clear with regard to India. 

Chairman : I take it that the suggestion to increase the number to eight is agreed. 
{Agreed.) May I take it that the Conference accepts Lord Derby's definite sugges- 
tion as to the Director of the National Gallery and the Director of Kew Gardens? 



102 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Sir Joseph Ward : I think the idea is an excellent one. 

Sir George Perley: Do you mean to mention them in the Charter by title? 

Chairman: No. Lord Derby was very anxious to have your views whether you 
approved of the selection of those two particular officials. 

Mr. Eogers: Do they form part of the Commission? 

Chairman: Yes. 

Sir Joseph Ward: From an artistic and architectural point of view I think it is 
advisable to have them included. 

Chairman: I think it is advisable. 

General Ware : I should like to add that I think, if only from the point of view of 
the work which the Director of Kew Gardens has already done, it is important that 
he should form one of the Commission. The Assistant Director has been actually 
working in France and has been of invaluable assistance to us. He knows the whole 
work from the horticultural point of view and has been in communication with the 
oversea authorities on the question. 

Chairman : May I take it that the Conference approve the Draft Charter as 
amended ?* 

(Agreed.) 



THIRTEENTH DAY. 
Wednesday, 25th April, 1917. 

The Imperial War Conference met at the Colonial Office at 10.30 a.m. 

Present : 

The Eight Honourable Walter H. Long, M.P., Secretary of State for the Colonies 
(Chairman of the Conference). 

The Eight Honourable Sir Albert H. Stanley, M.P., President of the Board of 
Trade. 

Canada. 

The Eight Honourable Sir E. Borden, G.C.M.G., Prime Minister. 

The Honourable Sir G. H. Perley, K.C.M.G., Minister of Overseas Military 

Forces. 
The Honourable E. Eogers, Minister of Public Works. 
The Honourable J. D. Hazen, Minister of Marine and Fisheries and Minister of 

the Naval Service. 

New Zealand. 

The Eight Honourable W. F. Massey, Prime Minister. 

The Eight Honourable Sir Joseph Ward, Bart, K.C.M.G., Minister of Finance. 

/South Africa. 

Lieutenant-General the Eight Honourable J. C. Smuts, Minister of Defence. 

N ewfoundland. 

The Eight Honourable Sir E. P. Morris, K.C.M.G., Prime Minister. 

* The riraft Charter as further revised is printed on pp. 153-156. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 103 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

India. 

The Eight Honourable A. Chamberlain, Secretary of State for India. 
Sir J. S. Meston, K.C.S.I., Lieutenant-Governor of the United Provinces. 
Colonel His Highness the Maharaja of Bikaner, G.C.IS.L, G.C.I.E., A.D.C. 
Sir S. P. .Sinha, Member Designate of the Executive Council of the Governor of 
Bengal. 

Mr. H. C. M. Lambert, C.B., Secretary to the Conference. 

Mr. E. J. Harding, Junior Assistant Secretary to the Conference. 

There Were also Present: 

Sir G. V. Fiddes, G.C.M.G., C.B., Permanent Under Secretary of State for the 

Colonies. 
Mr. A. D. Steel-Maitland, M.P., Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for the 

Colonies. 
The Right Honourable Sir B. Chalmers, G.C.B., Permanent Secretary to the 

Treasury. 
The Bight Honourable Sir Maurice de Bunsen, G.C.M.G., G.C.V.O., C.B., 

Acting Assistant Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. 
Sir H. Llewellyn Smith, K.C.B., Permanent Secretary, Board of Trade. 
Sir E. Nott-Bower, K.C.B., Chairman, Board of Inland Revenue. 
Mr. Garnham Roper, C.B., Assistant Secretary, Harbour Department, Board of 

Trade. 
Mr. H. Fountain, C.B., C.M.G., Assistant Secretary, Commercial Department, 

Board of Trade. 
Sir W. H. Clark, K.C.S.I., C.M.G., Comptroller "General of the Commercial 

Intelligence Department, Board of Trade. 
Mr. 1ST. F. Warren Fisher, C.B., Deputy Chairman, Board of Inland Revenue. 
Mr. U. F. Wintour, C.B., Director of Contracts, War Office. 
Mr. Percy Ashley, Board of Trade. 
Lieutenant-Colonel W. Dally Jones, Assistant Secretary to the War Cabinet. 

and 
Private Secretaries. 



Double Income Tax. 

Chairman : An amended Resolution on the subject of Double Income Tax, handed 
in by Sir Robert Chalmers on behalf of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, was cir- 
culated last night to Members of the Conference. The Chancellor of the Exchequer 
desires me to say that he had hoped to be present himself, but in the special circum- 
stances, I am sure Members of the Conference will appreciate the reasons for his 
absence, and will feel that Sir Robert Chalmers can very properly take his place. The 
Resolution runs : " That the present system of Double Income Taxation within the 
Empire calls for' review in relation — 

(i) to firms in the United Kingdom doing business with the Oversea Dominions, 
India, and the Colonies; 

(ii) to private individuals resident in the United Kingdom who have capital in- 
vested elsewhere in the Empire; and 

(iii) to its influence on the investment of capital in the United Kingdom, the 
Dominions, and India, and to the effect of any change on the position 
of British capital invested abroad. 



104 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

The Conference therefore urges that this matter may be taken in hand as soon as 
financial conditions permit, and that an amendment of the law may be made which 
will remedy the present unsatisfactory position." 

I understand that Mr. Massey is willing to adopt that resolution and to propose 
it, in which case' Sir Robert Chalmers would second it. As we have the advantage of 
the presence of an ex-Chancellor of the. Exchequer in the person of the Secretary of 
State for India, I do not know whether he will be prepared to say anything to the 
Conference before we adopt the Resolution. 

Mr. Chamberlain: I do not think it necessary for me to do so, thank you, Mr. 
Chairman. 

Chairman: Then may that Resolution be adopted? 

Mr. Rogers : No ; I think there is something to be said about it 

Mi*. Massey : Yes, I want to say a word and, in supporting the Motion, I would 
just like to endorse what has been said by Mr. Long about Mr. Bonar Law's inability 
to be present. I am sure each and every one of us regrets his absence and sincerely 
sympathises with him in the intense anxiety which he must be feeling on account of 
his soldier son. I do not need to say any more, except that I only hope better news 
will arrive in a few days, so that the anxiety of the father and other members of the 
family may be set at rest. 

With regard to this Motion, which has been circulated to the Conference by the 
Department, I would just like to say that it is not so emphatic in the preamble as my 
own Motion was, but I think in the Motion proper it is in some respects an improve- 
ment on mine, and is certainly more comprehensive, so that I have no objection to 
it on that score, and it is an admission on the part of the Department, that the present 
system is not satisfactory and that some amendment is necessary. I am sure the 
Members of the Conference will agree with me in this, that the necessary amendment 
should be made as soon as possible, either by legislation or otherwise. 

I referred to this subject on its introduction a few days ago, and I do not need 
to labour it at any very great length, but I would just like to point out where its un- 
fairness has been brought home, especially I think to my colleague from New Zealand 
and myself. In the case of widows — and unfortunately a number of these ladies have 
been made widows during the present War — they have come to England to live, partly, 
perhaps, because they wanted to live near some of their relatives, and sometimes for 
other reasons, but they are here in England (I am speaking now of those with whom 
I am acquainted and those with whom I have had correspondence on this subject) 
and they will probably live here for the remainder of their days, but their properties 
are in New Zealand, and their incomes are derived from New Zealand. In the mean- 
time they are taxed for Income Tax purposes in New Zealand, and our Income Tax is 
very heavy, though not quite so heavy as the British Income Tax, but it is next to that 
so far as the Empire is concerned. They are taxed, as I say, in New Zealand on their 
income, and, because they live here, they are also taxed here, and this double taxation 
makes, under existing circumstances, a very serious inroad upon their incomes. That 
is one of the grievances. 

Another grievance is with regard to the position of business men. There are 
numbers of British firms who do business in New Zealand, and these firms pay Income 
Tax in their own country, that is, in Britain, and they again have to pay an Income 
Tax which we expect them to pay on the profits of their business in New Zealand. I 
think the same reasons apply to Australia and Canada, though not exactly to the same 
extent; I am not quite sure about South Africa I know the Canadian people in their 
taxation upon incomes do not go so far as we do ; they will probably require a heavier 
tax to assist them in carrying the burdens arising out of the present War. There is 
the position in regard to business men who naturally endeavour to make increased 
profits, or to provide for increased profits, on account of the double tax, and on account 
of the inequitable system of taxation, as we think it, to which they are subjected. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 105 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Then my attention has been called to this state of things which is going on. I 
happen to know most of the British firms doing business with New Zealand in the 
meat trade. It has been my business to deal officially with those people over the period 
of the War. I know of one very large British firm which has extensive connections in 
the meat-producing countries, I think I may say particularly in New Zealand. That 
firm has certainly a very large sum of money invested in New Zealand, and it has 
been extending its business just recently in the Dominion very considerably. We ask 
them to pay income tax on the profits they make, and no objection can be taken to that, 
because the principle stands that it is fair to tax income in the country where it is 
made; but these people have their headquarters in Great Britain at the present time. 
First of all they pay income tax to our Finance Minister. Our Finance Minister is 
here, and he will endorse, I am sure, the opinion I am expressing when I tell the 
Members of this Conference that it is a very heavy tax — we both pay it, and we know — 
and it is a graduated tax, so that the higher the income the more a man pays. I am 
not speaking of the Excess Profits Tax now particularly, because I will deal with 
that in a moment, but I am speaking of the ordinary Income Tax, which is on a very 
high scale for war purposes. This firm is taxed here again. Then there is the Excess 
Profits Tax. Many people desire to . make more money during the war period on 
account of increased taxation. I am not speaking of the ordinary meat salesman at 
Smithfield, because he has not been making more but has really not been making as 
much. The men in the meat trade itself are those who have undoubtedly been making 
larger incomes. We come along and tax them to the extent of forty-five per cent on 
their excess profits. According to the new arrangement which has been made in 
Britain, they will be taxed to the extent of fifty -five per cent ; I think I am right in 
saying so ; so that the two taxes will not amount to more than the profit actually made 
by way of excess. Very well; taking these people as an illustration — I do not know 
that I ought to mention the name of the firm, although I do not think they would 
object to it if I did mention it — they have to meet the competition of the great 
American Meat Trusts, possessing immense capital and who are to-day in a wonder- 
fully strong position. Up to the present the American Meat Trusts do not pay Income 
Tax in our country; possibly we shall ask them and compel them to do so presently; 
but they do not pay tax on income in England as British firms pay, and yet their meat 
is being sold in England, and they are doing an immense business with the British 
Government at the present time. I do not know what the position is in the Argentine, 
but I know perfectly well there is no war taxation in the Argentine, from which 
country they buy a very large proportion of their meat, and therefore they are placed 
at a tremendous advantage as compared with the firm of which I am speaking, or other 
firms similarly placed. Now the effect of that is going to be — and I think in some 
cases the effect has been — that these firms, British firms as they are, and as I believe 
they would like to remain, cannot stand up against this sort of thing and are thinking 
of shifting. I know a member of the firm is at present in the United States, perhaps 
making arrangements, or at any rate making enquiries, with a view to shifting the 
headquarters of this firm to that country and so escaping the enormous burden of 
taxation they are called upon to carry. I am quite sure there is no one in Britain 
who desire to bring that state of things about. In New Zealand we want to encourage 
business as much as we possibly can, and we mean to do it, not only as citizens of 
the Empire, but as men connected with the government of the country and as men 
connected to a certain extent with Imperial matters. We want to encourage business 
within the Empire as much as we can, and I do not think there is anything wrong in 
my saying so. 

Then there is another point of view, and I have mentioned this point previously, 
and to my mind it is the strongest point of all, and appeals particularly, I think, to 
every Dominion of the Empire, because we are all in the development stage; we are 
developing as rapidly as we can, and we are taking upon ourselves burdens in the 
shape of interest upon borrowed capital as fast as we consider it safe to do so. We 



106 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

are encouraging the introduction of capital, each and every one of us, into our 
Dominions, because we know it will be well and properly expended, and will assist 
in the development of the country, and tend towards the prosperity of the people 
living there already, or those who may come there in the future. Now if people who 
are fortunate enough to be possessed of capital which in the past has been invested in 
the Dominions, or may, in the future, be invested in the Dominions, unless their 
investments are handicapped very seriously, if they know what they will be called 
upon to continue to pay this very heavy taxation not only here, where the headquarters 
may be, but also in the Dominions, where their capital is invested, they are not going 
to the Dominions with their capital; or, if they do, it will be in cases where they are 
able to insist on a very high rate of interest, so that they may be in a position to pay 
the taxes in both countries. In any case, the Dominions are going to suffer; all invest- 
ments in the Dominions will be discouraged by the present system for that reason ; and 
for another reason which I will mention, I think the system should be amended as soon 
as it is possible to do so. Sir Joseph Ward mentioned the other day that in New Zea- 
land we have provided against this sort of thing as far as we possibly can, that is to say, 
in New Zealand, where a resident arrives from some other country within the British 
Dominions, and where he is taxed in that country upon his income, we make a rebate in 
our income tax to the extent to which he has to pay income tax in that other country. 
The provision in our Income Tax Act is : " Income derived by a person resident in 
'New Zealand, but not derived from New Zealand, shall be exempt from Income Tax 
" if and so far as the Commissioner is satisfied that it is derived from some other 
" country within the British Dominions,* and that it is chargeable with Income Tax 
in that country." That is satisfactory so far as it goes, but unfortunately it does not 
go very far, because it does not affect matters at this end. There is our position, and 
f know the position of the Chancellor of the Exchequer of this country perfectly well ; 
I know the difficulty he will have in meeting the very heavy expenditure that is going 
on, and that the present position will last for some time after the War. I do not think 
we ought to shut our eyes to that fact. The taxation that is being collected will be a 
gradually decreasing quantity, I hope and believe, and I think we are well able to 
pay it; but I think we should always go on the principle that each citizen of the 
Empire or of the State, as the case may be, should contribute to the taxation necessary 
in proportion to his ability to pay. Nobody objects to. that, but I do say that this 
Double Income Tax has had the effect of calling upon many people — many worthy 
citizens of the Empire and of the Dominions — to pay far more than in fairness they 
should be asked to contribute. 

That is all I have to say, Mr. Long, and I do not think we should take up a great 
deal of time in arriving at a conclusion with regard to this, to us, very important 
matter. 

Mr. Bogers : I would like to say a word or two on this point. First of all, let me' 
associate myself with what Mr. Massey has said with respect to the feelings of sym- 
pathy for the cause which prevents Mr. Bonar Law being present here to give us the 
benefit of his judgment on this important matter. 

Now, Mr. Long, we of course appreciate that this amended Besolution presents 
the matter in a somewhat different light to that in which it was presented to us by 
the representative of the Treasury the other day; at all events it goes the length of 
admitting that our position, in so far as income tax is concerned, is unsatisfactory. 
But beyond that I do not know that it holds out very much hope for a readjustment 
of the conditions, which are so unsatisfactory, of the Oversea Dominions, because all 
that is promised is that, as soon as financial conditions will permit, some further 
amendment may be taken. Now this may be many years in the future, and it is a 
very indefinite proposal, while in the meantime we are expected in the Oversea 

* See Memorandum printed on pp. 167-168. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 107 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Dominions to go on and suffer from what we regard as a very serious grievance in the 
matter of this Double Income Tax. Take our position in Canada. We have several 
large companies there that pay heavily in income tax where they have no capital 
invested at all. Let me take as an example the Hudson's Bay Company. They have 
no British capital invested, but they take large sums of money every year out of the 
natural resources of the Dominion of Canada on which an income tax is exacted by 
the Treasury of Great Britain, which we regard as a tax which should properly belong 
to the Dominion of Canada. The same applies, in a rather different form perhaps, in 
connection with the Grand Trunk Railway, a system which we have largely to assist 
from time to time, and have done so during the last forty years, while, as I understand 
it, an income tax is collected from that system as well. The same applies to the Bank 
of British North America and various other things. 

Now I understand that last year and the year before — perhaps Sir Robert Chalmers 
will correct me if I am wrong — there was some legislation in respect of Double Income 
Tax. 

Sir Robert Chalmers : It was last year. 

Mr. Rogers : Will you say just what the nature of that' was ? 

Mr. Massey : There was a small concession made ; I forgot to mention that. 

Sir Robert Chalmers : There was a deduction of Is. C>d. in the pound under 
certain circumstances to come off the incomes which were suffering double taxation. 

Chairman : It is set out in a footnote to the Memorandum by the Board of Inland 
Revenue which has been circulated.* 

Mr. Rogers: I understood you, Sir Robert, the other day to tell us that the 
Income Tax represented something like forty million pounds to your Treasury. 

Sir Robert Chalmers: I do not think I mentioned any figure. 

Mr. Rogers : Somebody mentioned it here. 

Sir Robert Chalmers : I heard figures being mentioned privately afterwards, but 
] certainly made no mention of a figure myself. 

Mr. Rogers: Could you give us any idea of the amount of the Income Tax? 

Sir Robert Chalmers : I do not think I could. 

Mr. Rogers :' I mean the Income Tax collected from the Oversea Dominions. 

Mr. Massey : That woukl be a very important point. 

Sir Robert Chalmers : I could not in the sense in which I take you to refer to 
the matter, that is, where Double Income Tax is concerned. I do not think I could 
give the information; I have consulted the Inland Revenue, and they could not give 
a figure which would be any help to the Conference. It would be a large sum. 

Mr. Rogers: You admitted by your Act of Parliament that an injustice was 
being done, and you undertook to correct it in a way we might accept to some extent, 
and now you come forward with your resolution and admit that the position is still 
unsatisfactory. Would it not be fair on your part, until this matter can be adjusted 
in some form as soon as financial conditions will permit, to allow, for the remainder 
of the period until that time is reached, the amount of Double Income Tax that is 
collected on such incomes as those to go to the Oversea Dominions until an adjustment 
can properly take place? Would not that be fair? 

Sir Robert Chalmers : I am not in a position to do more than say that the con- 
cession of 1916 would be continued, but I cannot say that it would be extended, which 
is the substance of your suggestion. 

Mr. Rogers : That is the point I think we should press, because, in view of 
the acknowledged unsatisfactory position and the fact that you have had the benefit 
of this Double Income Tax for such a period of time, surely it would be only fair that 

* See Memorandum printed on pp. 167-168. 



108 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 



7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 



wo should get the whole returned until such time as the financial conditions will 
admit of a settlement of that question. 

Sir Robert Chalmers : I am not in a position as representing the Chancellor 
of the Exchequer here to go further than to the extent to which he is prepared to go, 
which is in the form of the Resolution. 

Mr. Rogers: Then the Resolution, as far as I am concerned, would not be at 
all satisfactory; it really means nothing. 

Sir Robert Chalmers: I am the more sorry to hear that, as it represents 
in its operative form of words of Mr. Massey, which I have adopted on behalf of the 
Chancellor of the Exchequer. 

Mr. Rogers: I must admit it goes the length of admitting that the position 
is unsatisfactory, and that as soon as financial conditions will permit a change will be 
made, but there is no limit on that condition, and I think it is only fair that we 
should be entitled to the Double Income Tax from now until such time as a satisfactory 
arrangement can be reached under the financial conditions. Your Treasury has had 
the benefit to the detriment of our Treasury for many years, according to our idea, 
and therefore you could make the time as short as you like by arriving at a conclusion 
as to when the financial conditions will admit of having that general adjustment. 
Until such time arrives I think we can fairly claim that we are entitled to the full 
Income Tax that originate within the borders of the various Dominions, and for that 
reason I would not be disposed to accept this amendment. 

Sir Joseph Ward : Mr. Long, I would like in the first place to add a word 
of deep regret at the cause of the absence of Mr. Bonar Law, and my earnest 
sympathy for him in his domestic trial. 

Double Income Tax is a sore subject with the people in New Zealand, and I 
have very little doubt it is the same in the other Dominions, and it calls for some 
effort on the part of the representatives who are here to bring home to the British- 
Government and those authorities who advise them the supreme importance from 
an Empire standpoint of having an alteration made as soon as possible. When 
the War is over I do not think it is disputable that as a result of the enormous 
exportation of meat for war purposes, a large portion of which has been bought by 
the British Government for the French Government, there will be a direct trade 
between France and New Zealand, Australia, and Canada in meat and in wool, 
which is going to pass by the centre of the Empire, London, or any other port in this 
country; and the Home authorities will lose whatever proportion of that meat or 
wool — which, by those best qualified to judge, is considered will be enormous in its 
quantities — which will go past the British Isles directly to any of our Allies whose 
people have been educated to use these articles during the War. From the point of 
view of the exporters in New Zealand that will be very valuable, and it ought not 
, to be forgotten that none of these countries exports to Great Britain manufactured 
articles and only those from the products of the soil. This country is certain to 
los3 for a time, in my op nior, excepting upon superior competitive conditions 
(that is by a higher price being paid here) a considerable proportion of the exports 
which went from our country to this country prior, to the War. Those people who 
are being mulcted in Double Income Tax, if they can legitimately evade it will do so 
as certain as we are sitting at this Conference. This is a vital matter to the 
ordinary business man in our country, and to the ordinary professional man in our 
country who may from time to time visit the old land and stay here for a period 
which causes him to be called upon to pay Double Income Tax here, and they are 
going to do all in their power which they legitimately can do to avoid it. I am 
quite persuaded of that. On the other hand, when this War is over there is going to 
be an active competition for expansion in trade with the Oversea Dominions by 
some of our Allies, and probably by those who are at present enemy countries. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 109 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Now, what is the position of a man who is trading from one of those foreign 
countries with a New Zealander hy comparison with the man who is trading from 
London to New Zealand or to any other Oversea Dominion? Let me take as a 
typical case one of the enemy countries, Germany. Supposing it gets trade into 
our country through a British house, not through a German house, because our 
countries are standing up ■ against that, and it is yet to be discovered how you are 
going to prevent them trading % with a British house. That firm from Germany 
does not pay any Double Income Tax and is going to remain in a position advan- 
tageous to those British traders from this country, who will be under adverse 
conditions carrying on their trade with the oversea countries. Apart altogether 
from the necessities of the policy of the Treasury of this country, is it a fair 
proposition for the people who are working in the direction of consolidating the trade 
within the Empire and bringing a better condition of things into existence in order 
to prevent our enemies from getting up alongside of our people after the War, that 
we should in our respective callings, and in various parts of the Empire, go on 
promulgating proposals and endeavouring to put them into effect with the object of 
assisting trade, if at the very heart of the British Empire itself, a condition is 
going to exist that is not only a detriment to the traders within the Empire, but is 
going to drive some of them outside of the Empire for the purposes of carrying on 
their trade? As a matter of fact, we are very much concerned in New Zealand over 
the American Meat Trusts' operations there. Those of us who find it necessary to 
study the situation believe it is only a matter of time unless some methods can be 
devised 

Chairman: If you will forgive me interrupting you there, I do not know 
whether it would be convenient for you to reserve that point until the Board of 
Trade come; they thought that was going to be raised on the next resolution, when 
they are coming. 

Sir Joseph Ward: Very well. 

Chairman : There is also the question you raised the other day about the 
supertax which you propose in New Zealand under your Act of Parliament. 

Sir Joseph Ward : Then I will not refer to either now. 

Chairman: They are coming here prepared to deal with both those 
questions. 

Sir Joseph Ward: Very well, I will not take up the time of the Conference 
now on that matter. We have to fight the battle in our own country, and do all 
we can to try to meet what I believe is going to be a great deflection of trade. 
I know at the moment, and I think it is known to the authorities here, that there has 
been a movement of men in this country to avoid this Double Income Tax by 
changing their whole business out of this country to the United States of America 
and to other countries. That is a very serious thing, and one of the concerns with a 
million or two millions of capital — I do not know the exact amount, but they are 
enormous traders — 

Mr. Massey: Four millions. 

Sir Joseph Ward? If the information which I have is correct, and I believe 
it to be correct, negotiations have been going on for some time, and I was told only 
a few days ago that the negotiations would be successfully completed for the disposal 
cf their whole concern to a large organization in the United States of America. 
What does that mean? and that is only the beginning of what is going to be an 
active movement. It means that this country is going to lose practically the whole 
of the income taxation on that firm's operations, excepting such portion of it as they 
may continue to do in England under the new firm. If, among other things, they 
send a large portion of their products to France or to Italy or to any of the 



110 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 



7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 



Continental countries, then this country is going to suffer a further heavy loss 
through the Income Tax charged on the profits being unavailable here. The whole 
matter is a serious one. 

The representative of one of the largest institutions in Australia saw me within 
the last couple of months and told me that he was seriously considering the desir- 
ability of changing his head office from Australia to the United 'States of America. 
I know they are very large income tax payers here and in Australia. They are 
deeply concerned as to the probable necessity for their doing so. It is not entirely 
owing to the system which existed in England that they are being impelled to consider 
the necessity of transferring their business to the United States of America, but it is 
because of the fact that they suffer from a system of taxation in the State of Australia 
in which they have their head office and in turn come, at least partly, under the Common- 
wealth system of taxation too. They are getting it three times over. Where they pay 
Double Income Tax, as a British trading concern, they get one extra dbse here, one in 
one of the States of Australia, and a third in the Commonwealth of Australia. This 
man has been trading in this country, and his father before him, possibly for the last 
fifty or sixty years ; he is a Britisher, and his attachment to the Empire is beyond all 
question, but he pointed out to me that his business is not in existence for the purpose 
of paying away a larger amount of taxation than anyone can afford to pay, and that his 
business will not be worth carrying on if he is to continue to pay three income taxes 
because of the existence of this Double Income Tax which exists within the British 
Empire, and the fact that he has to pay a portion of taxation in the Commonwealth of 
Australia. The latter is not the fault of the British authorities here, but the fact 
remains that if a man has a certain amount of capital invested in his business and 
he is going to get a less net return upon it from trading than if he sold his business 
and got out of it and put his money into something else, he will nqt go on carrying 
on his business; but his business is too important for him to willingly give it up, 
and that man, I know, is seriously contemplating transferring the whole of his head 
office to a country he does not want to go. These men are not doing it for the fun of 
the thing; they are not moving in this direction with a view to bring pressure to 
bear upon any of the Governments to make a change, but they are doing it out of 
sheer necessity. "Necessity knows no law," and necessity will impel a number of 
other people, in my opinion, to do exactly the same sort of thing, in order to get into 
a position of paying lower taxation upon the amount of income derived from the 
business they are doing in any portion of the British Empire. 

As I say, this matter is a very serious one, and it is not going to stop at the end 
of the war, and it is causing everlasting friction in all of the Oversea Dominions. 
One does not want to put his oar into the boat of the British Chancellor of the 
Exchequer in connection with financial operations, but I am persuaded that this is 
going to do this country an immense amount of harm, and it is going to do the 
Oversea Dominions an immense amount of harm, and it will be taken advantage of 
by our enemies after the War is over ; they will be trading under superior conditions, 
probably coming in, as they did before, with enormous subventions for their steamers, 
so as to get an advantage over the British trader, and their goods will be carried at 
lower rates, as was the case in the past, and the tremendous subventions for their 
steamers will help them to beat if they do not wipe out the British steamers in the 
way of competition. They did not succeed before, it is true, very far from it, but with 
the added difficulties we are all going to have from war taxation imposed upon our 
people arising from the necessities of the War, we are all going to have higher income 
taxes levied than we had in pre-war times, and when it comes to the question of one 
man or firm or private individual finding this system of double taxation is going to 
be continued, it will strain their loyalty to such an extent that the head office of 
many of these concerns will be removed to some other country to a very great extent 
indeed. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 111 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

While I am upon this, I want to say a word with regard to the difficulty, for war 
taxation purposes, of that Excess Profits Tax to which Mr. Massey referred. In our 
country we take forty -five percent; here you take sixty per cent. In our country I 
had a clause put into the , Statute giving us power to recipro'cate with the Chancellor 
of the Exchequer here so as to have, if possible, a lower basis from the two amounts 
than the forty-five and the sixty per cent, with a view to having a reasonable proportion 
of double taxation levied upon those who come under it. There are not a great many 
people who do come under it, but those who do come under the proposal as it is now find 
it ruinous to them, and I am bound to say that the heads of the Revenue Department 
here who discussed the matter with Mr. Massey and myself met us quite fairly as to 
how a change which I submitted to them could* be made. I understand that it cannot 
be done without legislation here, and I also understand that there is to be legislation 
to meet this system of charging which this unfortunate war has compelled the whole 
of us in our separate countries to put into operation. 

When I came to England some years ago as Colonial Treasurer of New Zealand 
one of the duties imposed upon me was to ask the British Government to do away 
with double income tax. I saw the then Chancellor of the Exchequer and made strong 
representations to him, and, after going into it, he expressed the opinion to me that 
this country could not sustain the loss which would be imposed by abolishing it. It 
was not so acute then as it is now. Later on I went to another Chancellor of the 
Exchequer and I pointed out to him the continuance of the friction from the period 
when I had originally gone to the Chancellor of the Exchequer to urge upon him the 
necessity for it being altered, and after going into the matter on that occasion the 
Chancellor of the Exchequer, (the present Prime Minister) gave a similar answer to 
that given to me by his predecessor. In the interval that ha? elapsed this war has, 
changed the whole conditions of obtaining money to keep up our end in the Oversea 
Dominion; it has certainly accentuated the injustice of this Double Income Tax out of 
all proportion to what that accentuation had reached on either of the earlier occasions 
when I made representations about it. There is not a business firm from end to end of 
New Zealand at this moment — there is not a public man from end to end of New Zealand 
at this moment — who is not steeped up to his eyes in a feeling brought about by 
representations made to him that this taxation is injurious to our Dominion, and 
consequently bound to be injurious to each of the other Dominions as well as to the 
Motherland, and that it is going to militate against the free intercourse of trade and 
the development that we are all anxious in every way in our power to assist in 
promoting. I recognise fully, and I have said it before, that at this juncture no one 
with the responsibility on his shoulders of a Chancellor of the Exchequer would be safe 
in conceding during the War period what ought to be done as soon after the War as 
possible, because we recognise, where these thousands of millions of money have to be 
raised, that it is vital to the Empire as a whole that there should be no interference 
or anything which would tell against the work of the Chancellor of the Exchequer and 
the Treasury here in raising the required money to enable the War to be won. I do 
want, however, to reaffirm my earnest hope and my profound conviction that this matter 
must be taken in hand immediately after the War has been concluded, and a change 
of policy effected here to raise an equivalent amount of money, whatever that amount 
may be, from some other source. 

Sir George Perley : I would just like to say that it seems to me there 
cannot be two opinions on the general question involved in this discussion. I think 
it is manifestly unfair and unwise that there should be a Double Income Tax within 
the British Empire. The result of it must be eventually to prevent anyone from 
making investments in any country except the one he lives in. I take it that under 
the present arrangement you practically say to an investor from the Dominions, " You 
" must not come here and invest any money in England, you must not buy stocks or 



112 IMPERIAL 'WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

" shares in England, because, if you do, you will have to pay Double Income Tax." 
I think as a matter of fact, instead of making our Empire one, nothing could serve 
better to divide us up and separate us than to have a law which forces us to invest 
in the country we reside in. We, in the Dominions, of course need the capital, and 
we therefore suffer from this Double Income Tax more than those who are living in 
this country. I would like to see this Eesolution made in more general terms. We 
are at the present time the one who are suffering chiefly from this Double Income 
Tax, because we want capital for our development, but I cannot see why there 
should be a law such as to make it difficult or unwise for me to have some invest- 
ments in this country; because, practically, under this system of income tax, I 
cannot come here and make any investments in practice because I suffer too much by 
taxation. It seems to me it is manifestly right that Income Tax should be collected 
in the country where the income is earned, and I would like to see a Eesolution in 
general terms looking forward to our having a Conference. This is a matter for 
adjustment between the various Governments of the Dominions; it is not solely a 
r.jatter for the United Kingdom to settle itself, and we ought to have a Conference of 
the representatives of the Finance Departments, or of the Einance Ministers, of the 
various Dominions with the Chancellor of the Exchequer as soon as the War is over, 
in order to come to some mutual understanding as to what is fair play in the interests 
of the whole Empire with regard to this particular question. So that I would like 
to see the Eesolution read something in this way : " That the present system of 
" Double Income Taxation within the Empire is not only inequitable and unfair but 
"must necessarily retard the growth of the Dominions, which all require large 
" amounts of capital for development purposes," and this position will be accentuated 
in the near future, " and the Conference therefore urges that this matter may be 
taken in' hand at the earliest date possible," or I would say, " immediately after the 
War, and that an amendment of the law may be made which will remedy the pre- 
sent unsatisfactory position." I do not like the words " as soon as financial conditions 
permit." I take it that would probably mean never, and I do not think the financial 
conditions ought to be allowed to prevent the remedying of what is not only a mani- 
fest injustice but an unwise thing, and I think that in the interests of the Empire we 
ought not to have double taxation. I quite understand what Mr. Massey had in his 
mind in his Eesolution, but to my mind this injustice ought to be remedied. It is not 
only unjust, at the present time particularly, to the people from the Oversea Dominions 
who reside in this country and to Oversea companies having their headquarters in this 
country, but from an Empire point of view it is something which ought to be remedied. 
That is my feeling about it. 

Mr. Hazen : Mr. Chairman, I would like to say that I am inclined to agree, in a 
very large measure, with what has been said by Mr. Eogers and by Sir George Perley 
with respect to this Eesolution which has been prepared and handed in by Sir Eobert 
Chalmers. I do not like the Eesolution at all, and I do not think it will accomplish 
any good purpose in the way in which it is put. Everybody agrees, I think — at least, 
everybody who has expressed himself at this Conference — that a system of Double 
Income Tax within the Empire is improper and is unwise, and calls for review, and 
should be reviewed and should be changed. Now, if that is the case, why should not 
proper steps be taken to change it, and why should we limit the Eesolution by 
putting in words urging that the matter may be taken in hand " as soon as financial 
conditions permit " ? If a system is unwise, if a system is unjust, if a system is unfair 
to people both in the British Isles and to the people in the Overseas Dominions, we are 
practically saying there that we will go on and wring a tax from people when it is 
unjust and improper, because the Chancellor of the Exchequer may possibly need the 
money. If it is unjust and improper, then the money ought to be found from some 
other sources, and if we leave those words in there — "as soon as financial conditions 
permit," — I am disposed to think that it will be years and years before the step is 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 113 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

taken, because, after the War is over, the financial pressure and the need for taxes, 
and the need for sources of revenue will be quite as great as it is at the present time. 
I therefore think that those words ought to be eliminated from that Resolution if it 
is to have any effect whatever ; and I think we are not taking very proper ground when 
we agree that the tax is wrong and unjust and improper, and retards the progress of 
the Empire, but yet say we shall not lay hands upon it until financial conditions per- 
mit us to do so. I think, Mr. Chairman, those words at least " as soon as financial 
conditions permit " should be stricken out of this Resolution. This Resolution comes 
to us prepared in the Office of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. 

Sir Robert Chalmers : May I interrupt for a moment to say that the words you 
are speaking of are those of Mr. Massey, which were adopted by the Chancellor of the 
Exchequer. 

Mr. Massey : I want all I can get ; please do not make any mistake about that. 

Mr. Hazen : I want those words to come out, Mr. Massey. I can understand 
the Chancellor of the Exchequer putting them in, but I do not think this Conference 
ought to put them in for a single moment. I think it is very unwise. Further than 
that, this Resolution is simply prepared from one standpoint, that is, from the stand- 
point of the investor in the British Islands. What does it say ? — " calls for review in 
" relation (i) to firms in the United Kingdom doing business with the Oversea Dom- 
" inions, India, and the Colonies ;" and " (ii) to private individuals resident in the 
"United Kingdom who have capital invested elsewhere in the Empire." It seems to 
me, the system of double taxation calls for review in relation to other things. It 
surely calls for review in relation to companies in the Dominions who are doing 
business with the United Kingdom and with other Dominions, and it surely calls for 
review also in relation to private individuals resident in the Dominions who have 
capital invested elsewhere in the Empire. This draft Resolution is prepared simply 
from the point of view of the man residing or the firm doing business in the British 
Isles. I think that is most objectionable, because I think the injustice, if it exists, 
exists both ways. There are many people residing in the Dominions and doing busi- 
ness in Great Britain, or individuals who reside in the Dominions and have capital 
invested in the United Kingdom. 

Mr. Massey : We have such cases in our own hands. 

Mr. Hazen : Yes, and to whom quite as much injustice is being done as to people 
in the United Kingdom who have their capital invested in New Zealand, Australia, 
Canada, or elsewhere in the Oversea Dominions. 

Mr. Massey : You can remedy that, as we have remedied it in New Zealand. 

Mr. Hazen : Of course we can remedy it, and the British Government can remedy 
it, but we as a Conference here representing different parts of the Oversea Dominions 
are asking that there shall be a remedy applied all round, as I understand it, on a fair 
and equitable basis. Therefore I think it is not wise for us to put a Resolution on 
record that would give the impression that it is only to be remedied from one stand- 
point, and that standpoint applying to. the individuals resident in the United King- 
dom, and the firms in the United Kingdom doing business in the Empire outside the 
United Kingdom. It seems to me that that view must be considered before we pass 
this Resolution. 

Coming back to the other point, reference has been made to the drafting of the 
Resolution, and I may say that those words, " as soon as financial conditions permit," 
ought under no circumstances to be allowed to continue in the Resolution. If, as I 
said before, it is unjust and improper, and contrary to the interests of this Empire, 
that Double Income Tax should be imposed, then the sooner we get rid of it the better, 
and if money is required for the purpose of carrying the British Empire through the 
War, or for other purposes, that money should be obtained from other sources. There 
is no justification for the retention of the tax, if it is admitted to be an improper tax, 

42a— 8 



114 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 



7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 



by saying that the money is needed, because the money could be found from other 
sources which would not be objectionable or unfair, and would not work against the 
general interests of the Empire. 

General Smuts: Mr. Long, on the whole I prefer the Resolution which has been 
put forward on behalf of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I prefer it in the first 
place because the mere proposal is a very distinct concession already. So far, we from 
the Dominions have been putting forward the strongest claims for reform, and at 
previous Conferences we have always been met with a more or less non possumus 
attitude by the. Chancellor of the Exchequer. Now a distinct advance is marked. 
The Chancellor of the Exchequer now comes forward with a proposal which in sub- 
stance is all that we can desire, and embodies the operative part of the proposal which 
was put forward on behalf of New Zealand. I therefore think that this is an advant- 
age which we should not throw away, and I should like to pin down the Chancellor 
of the Exchequer to his own concession that he has made now, and, therefore, I should 
like to pass the Resolution he has brought forward on this occasion. 

Mr. Ha zen : How long do you suggest it will be before the Chancellor of the 
Exchequer will admit that the financial circumstances will permit of it? 

General Smuts : That raises the point which was discussed at a previous meeting. 
It was explained to us by Sir Robert Chalmers, and also by Mr. Chamberlain, who is 
very conversant with this question, that this question of the Double Income Tax goes 
to the root of the whole taxation system of this country. The Income Tax is the basis 
of the whole fiscal system of this country to-day. You cannot dissociate the element 
of Double Income Tax from the Income Tax itself. That we must assume, and I can 
quite understand that it is so, and therefore, if this question of the Double Income Tax 
on which we feel so strongly is to be dealt with, the whole subject calls for careful 
inquiry. How you are going to conduct an inquiry like that during the present crisis 
passes my comprehension. I think we must in fairness admit that whilst this War is 
going on, while every nerve is being strained to achieve victory, and a victory which 
will be a foundation for all future performance, it would be most unreasonable on our 
part to press for such an inqury being instituted. The words " as soon as financial 
conditions permit" seem to cause Sir George Perley to boggle. 

Sir George Perley : That means postponing it permanently, I should say. 

General Smuts: It satisfies Mr. Massey. 

Chairman : General Smuts has reminded me of the previous debate, which unfor- 
tunately there has not yet been time to get from the printer, in which the Treasury 
preferred different machinery. 

Sir Robert Borden : Why not say " immediately on the conclusion of the War " ? 
let it read " as soon as war conditions permit," because that is the only bar when the 
War is over. 

Sir Robert Chalmers : Strike out the word " financial " and leave it " as soon as 
conditions permit." 

Mr! Massey : I am afraid that does not improve it. 

General Smuts : " War conditions," Sir -Robert, would mean that the Dominions 
do not call for this reform while this War is going on. 

Sir Robert Chalmers : I will agree with " war conditions." 

General Smuts: That would remove the objection of Sir George Perley. 

Sir George Perley : I certainly would not ask them to go into it now during the 
War; I am not asking that. 

General Smuts : Then I think for " financial " we might substitute " war con- 
ditions " — " as soon as war conditions permit." 

Sir Robert Borden: Why not say "immediately on the conclusion of the War"? 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 115 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Mr. Hazen: Then you will get something definite. 

Sir Robert Borden: Have you any objection to that? 

Mr. Chamberlain: If I may interrupt, I think there can be no objection to that 
if that better meets the views of the Conference. I would just like to say that I think 
some of the Dominion speakers, in criticising the wording of the Resolution, have 
undervalued the force of the arguments which they have addressed to the Conference 
in bringing the subject forward. After all, the arguments used by the Dominions 
representatives show what we are clearly conscious of, that in his own interests the 
British Chancellor of the Exchequer must review this matter now. He has no interest 
in delay, because it is perfectly true that with the very high rates of tax which are now 
in force in this country there is a great and growing tendency to remove the offices of 
companies to other places, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer will then lose not merely 
the revenue which he now collects on income earned abroad but he loses the whole-: 
revenue. It is therefore to the interest of the British Chancellor of the Exchequer to* 
get this matter reviewed and to arrive at a decision upon it as early as possible. If 
1 may add one word to illustrate it — and I am a little shy about doing this, because I. 
do not sit here as an ex-Chancellor of the Exchequer, or indeed as a British Minister, 
and I do not want to use my position as one of the representatives of India to argue 
against the Dominions on a matter on which, as far as it goes, the interest of India is 
exactly the same as the interest of the Dominions. I would like to put one case to the 
Conference just to show the difficulties which we have to meet. The main claim that 
has been made by the Dominions is that the Income Tax should be collected in the 
country where the income is earned. Now, consider the position of a British Finance 
Minister called upon to defend this situation : an Englishman of great realized wealth,, 
liable according to our present law to pay a very high rate of taxation — both Income 
Tax and super-tax — sells out all his investments in the United Kingdom or in foreign 
countries and invests it entirely in the securities of that Dominion which has the- 
lowest rate of tax. Well, he is evading his just dues* to the British Government. 

Mr. Massey: Not necessarily. 

Mr. Chamberlain: You are making it easy for the millionaire here to pay tax at 
a lower rate than you exact from a much poorer person. There really are countless 
difficulties of that kind which do call for careful examination, but we all in this country, 
as well as in the Dominions, desire that the subject should be taken up and thoroughly 
explored at the earliest possible moment. If it could be explored, as Sir George Perley 
has suggested, not as being a question of British Income Tax only, but as a question 
of Income Tax throughout the Empire and in conference with the Finance Ministers 
of the other parts of the Empire, I think any British Government would be glad to 
adopt that method. 

Sir Robert Borden: Mr. Chairman, I do not pretend to understand this subject 
in its particularity or in its details, and therefore I am looking at it only in the broadest 
aspect. It is probable that I do not sufficiently understand it to realize all the difficul- 
ties which may confront a Chancellor of the Exchequer here in dealing with the subject. 
Mr. Chamberlain has made some of them pretty clear. The subject impresses me in 
its broad aspect in this way. It is desirable for us to keep the natural resources of the 
Empire under our own control so far as possible. For that very reason it is important 
that there should be no handicap upon the investment of British capital in developing 
the resources of other parts of the Empire as compared with the opportunities afforded 
to foreign capital for that purpose. Under present conditions there is, if I understand 
the situation correctly, an unintentional discrimination in favour of foreign capital, 
which, coming to one of the Dominions for investment, will not be faced with double 
taxation, or may not be, while British capital invested for the same purpose is con- 
fronted with that handicap. 

42a— 8J 



116 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Mr. Massey : That is under the present position. 

Sir Robert Borden: Under the present position. From that broad standpoint 
alone I do think the situation demands review. I am not in a position to understand 
why the first and second paragraphs of the Resolution which relate to the position of 
particular firms should be included; and those who are more familiar with the subject 
than I am will instruct me if I am wrong when I suggest that everything is included 
in (iii) of the draft Resolution. . If there is any particular purpose to be fulfilled by (i) 
end (ii) which is not fulfilled by (iii) I would not press the suggestion. In drafting it 
is better not to go into particulars or to mention particular subjects when there is a suffi- 
ciently comprehensive general statement. It seems to me that (iii) is sufficiently com- 
prehensive in itself. If I am right in that view then I suggest that the Resolution 
would be improved by leaving out (i) and (ii). 

Sir Joseph Ward : I do not think that would do. 

Sir Robert Borden : Why not ? 

Chairman : These are the words of the original amendment. 

Sir Joseph Ward: The conditions are very well known in our respective countries 
that you want to individualize. 

Sir Robert Borden : If you begin to enumerate, you should be very certain that 
you enumerate everything necessary. 

Mr. Hazen: If you are going to individualize do not you want to individualize 
more than you have done? — 

Sir Robert Borden : The danger is that the moment you begin to particularize, 
you exclude all that is not specially mentioned. 

Sir Joseph Ward: The last one deals with capital only, whereas as a matter of 
fact there are firms in the United Kingdom having a house in your country and ai 
house here, and you could not include them under the provisions of (iii), because they 
are not applicable. Then there are private individuals resident in the United King- 
dom who have capital invested elsewhere. 

Sir Robert Borden: I do not press it, but I am still not convinced as to the 
drafting. I am willing to leave it as it is, if that is the opinion of the Conference, 
but I would suggest that the words " immediately after the conclusion of the War " 
should be substituted in the concluding paragraph for the words " as soon as financial 
conditions permit " ; and I would also suggest that the word " may " in the last line 
but one should be eliminated and the word " should " substituted for it. 

Mr. Massey : The word should be " shall," or otherwise it is not grammar. 
Chairman : You could not have " shall," which is mandatory. 
Mr. Massey : No, I do not say it should be that. 

Sir Robert Borden : It would read therefore in this way : " The Conference 
" therefore urges that this matter may be taken in hand immediately after the con- 
" elusion of the War, and that an amendment of the law should be made which would 
" remedy the present unsatisfactory position." I do not think that materially alters 
the meaning, but it makes it read more sensibly. 

Chairman: I think that is all right. 

Sir Joseph Ward : Yes, " should " is the right word. 

Chairman : Then it would read as follows : " That the present system of Double 
" Income Taxation within the Empire calls for review in relation (i) to firms in the 
" United Kingdom doing business with the Oversea Dominions, India, and the 
"Colonies; (ii) to private individuals resident in the United Kingdom who have 
" capital invested elsewhere in the Empire, or who depend upon remittances from 
" elsewhere in the Empire." 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 117 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Sir Robert Chalmers : Those last words represent a suggested amendment by 
Sir James Meston, which he handed to me, and I willingly accept it. 

Mr. Masse y: I do not see any objection to that. 

Chairman : " and (iii) to its influence on the investment of capital in the United 
" Kingdom, the Dominions, and India, and to the effect of any change on the position 
" of British capital invested abroad. The Conference therefore urges that this matter 
" may be taken in hand immediately after the conclusion of the War, and that an 
" amendment of the law should be' made which will remedy the present unsatisfactory 
" position." 

Mr. Hazen : I would like to call the attention of the Conference to the fact that 
the declaration is that the system of Double Income Taxation within the Empire, not 
within the British Isles, but within the 'Empire, calls for review, and then the r-est 
relates simply to those matters within the British Isles, firms in the British Isles, and 
private individuals resident in the United Kingdom, and (iii) "is " its influence on the 
investment of capital in the United Kingdom." That single clause is limited by the 
language of the first and second clauses, because you have to particularize. It seems 
to me that the system of Double Income Tax within the Empire calls for a review as 
well in the Oversea Dominions as here in the British Isles. 

Mr. Massey: But we can do that now. 

Mr. Hazen : So can they do it now, if they want to. 

Mr. Massey : No, the legislature of the United Kingdom cannot interfere with 
our system of Income Tax in Canada, New Zealand, or anywhere else — it is quite 
impossible. They have to do it at this end, and we at the other. 

Mr. Hazen: But they have full power to fix their Income Tax here so that it 
will not bear unjustly on residents in the British Isles or on firms here doing business 
outside. They have the same power that we have. 

Mr. Massey: Yes, if you exercise your powers, then you get over the difficulty 
to which you refer. 

Mr. Hazen : As this Resolution appears, the only trouble dealt with is with 
regard to people who are in the British Isles doing business outside, or residents in the 
British Isles who have investments outside. 

Mr. Massey: But in the case of residents in Canada you must deal with them 
yourselves ; and when I say " yourselves " I mean the Dominion Parliament. 

Mr. Hazen: Certainly, but this Resolution refers to double taxation within the 
Empire, and it refers to the whole Empire, not simply to the taxation in the British 
Isles. 

Chairman : May I point out, Mr. Hazen — I do not want to interrupt the discus- 
sion, but we have a great deal of other business — that (i) and (ii) and half of (iii) 
are to be found in Mr. Massey's original Resolution. Practically we have admitted 
it as a Second Reading, and it is only the little bit at the end that is put in by the 
Treasury. 

Mr. Hazen : I have very great respect for Mr. Massey's acumen and experience, 
but even Homer sometimes nods, and even ivlr; Massey may sometimes make a mistake. 

Mr. Massey : Let me say a word here. I have refrained from saying anything 
because I did not want to prolong the discussion, but I thought, when I was drafting 
the first Resolution, about. inserting the word " war " instead of " financial," and then 
it would have read exactly according to the suggestion that has been made just now. 
But it occurred to me, though we are all hoping very much that the War will come 
to an end this year, or next year at the very latest, yet we do not know. We can 
recollect a Seven Years War and quite a number of other wars which lasted very much 
longer than that, and this War may go on for three or four years, though we all" hope 
it will not, and I trust it will not. It is a very serious matter already, and it would 



118 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

be twenty thousand times more serious if it went on for years to come. But if it goes 
on for years and this position continues, of British firms leaving Britain and going to 
neutral and other countries in order to avoid this system of Double Income Tax, then 
it is going to become a very serious matter. I do not want to say that the present 
system is going to last until the end of the War, because I think it ought to be taken 
in hand at the earliest possible moment, and when it becomes necessary for the Chan- 
cellor of the Exchequer and his Department to review the position and ask for more 
money, as they undoubtedly will, there is no question about it, because the House is 
sitting now and they will require further legislation, then, with all due deference to 
the opinion expressed the other day, I think that is the time to make the alteration 
necessary without waiting for a possible end of the War. I hope the Conference sees 
my point. If we say, " war " here, though, I have no strong objection to it, it means 
that the present system must last to the end of the War, and I do not want it to be so, 
if I can avoid it. 

Sir Robert Borden: They have told us distinctly that they cannot take it up 
until the end of the War. 

Mr. Massey : With all due deference to the Department, I am not prepared to 
accept that, and I say that after having a long discussion on the subject with the 
Chancellor of the Exchequer himself. 

Sir Robert Borden : I should prefer to take them at their word and get a definite 
date fixed, that is, the conclusion of the War. 

Mr. Massey : That may be the better course. With regard to the other points, 
I would just like to say that this is not an Act of Parliament coming up for the inter- 
pretation of a judge. All that is intended by the original Resolution as drafted by 
myself, or as amended by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, is to call attention to the 
present unsatisfactory and, as I think, unfair double system of taxation which is in 
operation. Attention has been called to it, and we, having affirmed the principle and 
expressed our opinion, that is, I think, quite sufficient for the time being, and is as far 
as we can go. 

Now that I have been drawn into the discussion again just let me say a word with 
regard to the point raised by Mr. Chamberlain. Mr. Chamberlain suggested that it 
might be possible, if this happened to be agreed to and took legislative shape, wealthy 
people, or companies, or syndicates doing business at present in Britain might transfer 
their headquarters to one of the Dominions and that Dominion 

Mr. Chamberlain : I beg pardon, not people doing business but a man with invested 
capital might transfer his investment and would transfer it to that part of the Empire 
where he would pay the lowest taxation. 

Mr. Massey : Very well. That is not the idea in my mind or in the mind of any 
one of the members of the Conference, I am quite certain. The idea is this, that a 
man in such a position as that referred to by Mr. Chamberlain, if he thought about 
transferring his capital to that Dominion which charged the lowest possible rate of 
Income Tax, would be faced with this position, and I think it is a position most of us 
will agree with, that in such a case he would be called upon, and the law ought to pro- 
vide that such a man should be called upon, by the legislature of the United Kingdom 
to pay the difference between the rate of Income Tax in that country and the rate of 
Income Tax which the ordinary British citizens pay in the United Kingdom. That 
is what was contemplated in all the previous discussion, and I think that power should 
exist. However, that is a matter for the British Legislature itself rather than for us 
for this Conference. 

Sir George Perley : I would like to call attention to the word "may" in the second 
line of the last section. If you put "should" in the last line but one I think it would 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 116 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

be better to have "should" in the second line: "The Conference therefore urges that 
this matter should be taken in hand," and "an amendment of the law should be made." 

Mr. Massey : It is consequential ; I do not think it makes a great deal of difference, 
biut I do not object to it. 

Chairman: May we adopt that Resolution as amended? — (Agreed). 

Development and Control of Natural Resources. 

Chairman : The next business of the Conference is the motion standing in the 
name of Sir Robert Borden, which was before the Imperial War Cabinet yesterday. 

Sir Robert Borden : I should like to say a few words, but I shall not take more 
than three minutes. As I have already informed you, Mr. Long, privately, this Reso- 
lution was considered by the representatives of the Overseas Dominions before I gave 
notice of it, and its terms are accepted by them. At your suggestion, Sir, it was referred, 
before its consideration here, to the Imperial War Cabinet, and,, without saying 
more, it may be prudent to place on record that it has the complete and unanimous 
sanction of the Imperial War Cabinet, so that we are at full liberty to consider it from 
that point of view. 

It does not seem to require any prolonged explanation : It begins, "Having regard 
" to the experience obtained in the present War, this Conference records its opinion 
" that the safety of the Empire and the necessary development of its component parts 
" require prompt and attentive consideration, as well as concerted action, with regard 
" to the following matters : (1) The production of an adequate food supply and arrange-' 
" ments for its transportation when and where required, under any conditions that 
" may reasonably be anticipated." That is so obvious a necessity from the experience 
of the present War that I need not urge it. That experience has brought to light and 
emphasized certain considerations not previously apparent; and to-day there is no 
doubt as to the importance of having in the United Kingdom, iri case of future neces- 
sity, a more adequate supply for emergencies than has been considered necessary in 
the past. That subject, however, -is rather for domestic determination than for any 
suggestion by this Conference. 

The next subject mentioned in the Resolution is: (2) "The control of natural 
"resources available within the Empire, especially those that are of an essential char- 
acter for necessary national purposes, whether in peace or in war." The experience 
we have gained during the past few years indicates the importance of this conclusion. 
Unfortunately, we have found out that certain natural resources vitally necessary for 
national purposes, particularly for national purposes in war, have been more or less 
under the control of enemy nations, and were under that control at the outbreak of 
war. I take it therefore there should be no objection from this Conference or from any 
source to the affirmation of the principle embodied in the second paragraph of the 
Resolution. 

The third portion of the Resolution declares to be desirable "The economical 
" utilization of such natural resources through processes of manufacture carried on 
" within the Empire." We have also learnt from the experience gained in this War 
that natural resources which we absolutely control have been utilized for the upbuild- 
ing of industries in enemy nations and utilized in that respect to our disadvantage. 
Our Empire supplied the raw materials without which many industries in enemy 
nations, useful not only in peace but in war, were upbuilt in the first instance and 
have since been carried on. When war broke out we were without adequate supply, 
and we had no development which would enable us to produce it. It was in view of 
all these considerations that I took counsel with my colleagues from the Oversea Dom- 
inions as to the affirmance of the principles embodied in this Resolution, and, having 
obtained their assent to that view, in which they all heartily concurred, I have brought 



120 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

the subject to your attention, and it now stands here with that sanction and with the 
unanimous approval of the Imperial War Cabinet. I therefore beg to move the Resolu- 
tion. 

Mr. Massey: I second that motion. 

Chairman : It is moved by Sir Robert Borden and seconded by Mr. Massey. Does 
anybody wish to make any reference to it? 

Sir Joseph Ward : I am in full accord with the proposals contained in Sir Robert 
Borden's Resolution, and at the meeting, to which he very kindly invited me, we all 
assented, and it is quite the fact that as far as the Imperial War Cabinet is concerned 
it has been dealt with there, but one cannot allude to any aspect of the matter discussed 
there except to say that it was very favourably received. 

When this War is over it is beyond all question that the first portion of Sir Robert 
Borden's Resolution in connection with transportation will be dealt with, in my opinion, 
by all the oversea countries, and whatever any British country may do, is entirely 
for that British country to decide for itself. The result of this War has been, unhappily 
for the whole of us, an unpreventible and an unparalleled increase in the cost of the 
transportation of products from all parts of the Empire to the heart of the Empire for 
the requirements of those who are working for the preservation of the Empire, the 
Army and the Navy. It may be, when this War is over, with the depletion of shipping, 
that, with the greatest efforts made, a long period may supervene before the ships 
themselves in the necessary number to carry on the trade of the world can be got so 
as to ensure a quick lowering of the freights, which is so essential from the point of 
view of the producing countries, and also essential from the point of view of any con- 
suming countries to which those producing countries 1 send their products. It seems to 
me to be of the .greatest importance that the first Resolution of Sir Robert Borden 
should be favourably entertained, as I have no doubt it will be, in connection with the 
future development of the Empire as a whole. I want to say that with the other 
portions of his proposal about the control of the natural resources available within 
the Empire, and their economical utilization, I am in hearty accord, because I recognize 
and I am perfectly certain that every sensible man engaged in public life all over 
the British Empire recognizes, that we have got a stupendous work before us at the 
conclusion of this War, and, whatever the final decision may be, and whatever the 
internal difficulties in any portions of our countries may be, it seems to me to be of 
vital consequence that there should be co-operation and co-ordination as soon as pos- 
sible and as far as possible for giving full effect to the proposals contained in Sir 
Robert Borden's Resolution. I have very much pleasure in supporting it. 

Mr. Massey : On this subject of transportation I would just like to say that it is 
a subject which intensely concerns us on the other side of the world; but while I am in 
accord with the opinion which Sir Joseph Ward has expressed, it is just" as well to 
mention (because this is all going on record now) that our difficulty has arisen from 
the fact that a very large proportion of the British mercantile marine is employed not 
only for the purpose of carrying on the War from the British point of view, not only 
in connection with carrying supplies to the British Army, and the supplies required 
by the Imperial Navy, and the population of the United Kingdom, but also because 
many of our ships are to-day being used and will be used so long as the War lasts, 
necessarily, for the purpose of carrying supplies to our Allies in France and the French 
Army, to Italy and the Italian Army, to Russia and the Russian Army, and for the 
purposes of the combined forces which are at present at Salonika. That is a difficulty 
we are suffering at present but, when the War comes to an end those ships will be 
immediately released, or very soon after the War, and in consequence we may expect 
a great improvement in the transportation of goods within the Empire itself, and 
produced within the Empire, to other countries outside the Empire where those goods 
are required. I do not want to repeat more than I can possibly help what I have said 
on a previous occasion, but this question of transportation is undoubtedly of tre- 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 121 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

mendous importance to the Oversea Dominions, even more than to the heart of the 
Empire, because unless something is done it will be made impossible for us to compete 
with other countries outside the Empire which are nearer to the markets of the world 
than we are. That is our difficulty. This question came up (and I am not committing 
any breach of confidence in saying this) somewhat unexpectedly yesterday on a motion 
of 'mine which was being discussed by the Imperial War Cabinet. I am not going to 
repeat any of the opinions expressed, because we have not done with it there; it is to 
be dealt with there; Members will recollect the question was so important that the 
wording of the Motion was referred to a special Sub-Committee and is being dealt 
with by the Sub-Committee this afternoon, and I have no doubt that during the next, 
two or three days a great deal more will be said on the subject. However, I take the 
opportunity of saying now that I, representing New Zealand, along with my colleague 
Sir Joseph Ward, realize the tremendous importance of some great improvements 
being made in this respect not only by the Government of the United Kingdom, but 
also by the Governments of the Dominions themselves. 

The Resolution was put to the Conference by the Chairman and agreed to as 
follows: — 

Having ..regard to the experience obtained in the present War, this Con- 
ference; records its opinion that the safety of the Empire and the necessary 
development of its component parts require prompt and attentive consideration, 
as well as concerted action, with regard to the following matters : — 

(1) The production of an adequate food supply and arrangements for its 

transportation when and where required, under any conditions that 
may reasonably be anticipated. 

(2) The control of natural resources available within the Empire, especially 

those that are of an essential character for necessary national pur- 
poses, whether in peace of in war. 

(3) The economical utilization of such natural resources through processes 

of manufacture carried on within the Empire. 
The Conference commends to the consideration of the Governments sum- 
moned thereto the enactment of such .legislation as may assist this purpose. 

Control of Imports after the War from present Enemy Countries. 

Chairman : The next Resolution is one standing in Mr. Massey's name, which 
falls within the same category, but deals only with the question of the control of 
j imports and the preventing of dumping. We might take it formally. 

Mr. Massey : I beg formally to move the Resolution. 

.Chairman : The Resolution is as follows : " The Imperial War Conference con- 
sider it desirable with a view to prevent dumping or any other mode of unfair compe- 
tition from present enemy countries during the transition period after the War, that 
the several Governments of the Empire, while reserving to themselves freedom of 
action in any particular respect, take power to control the importation of goods originat- 
ing in such countries into the Empire for a period of twelve months after the War." 

Mr. Massey : I move the Resolution standing in my name and which has been read 
by the Chairman. 

Chairman : It is before the Conference. May we take it as agreed to ? 

Sir Robert Borden : Yes, I think we discussed the terms before, and certain 
suggestions made were embodied in it. 

Chairman : Yes. (Agreed.) 



122 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A ',917 

FOURTEENTH DAY. 
Thursday, 26th April, 1917. 

The Imperial War Conference met at the Colonial Office at 3.30 p.m. 

PRESENT : 

The Eight Honourable Walter H. Long, M.P., Secretary of State for the Colonies 
(Chairman of the 'Conference). 

The Eight Honourable Sir Albert H. Stanley, M.P., President of the Board of 
Trade. 

The Eight Honourable E. E. Prothero, M.P., President of the Board of Agricul- 
ture and Pisheries. 

Canada. 

The Eight Honourable Sir E. Borden, G.C.M.G., Prime Minister. 

The Honourable Sir G. H. Perley, K.C.M.G., Minister of Overseas Military 

Forces. 
The Honourable E. Sogers, Minister of Public Works. 

The Honourable J. D. Hazen, Minister of Marine and Pisheries and Minister of 
^ha Naval Service. 

New Zealand. 

The Eight Honourable W. F. Massey, Prime Minister. 

The Eight Honourable Sir Joseph Ward, Bart., K.C.M.G., Minister of Finance. 

South Africa, , 

Lieutenant-General the Eight Honourable J. C. Smuts, Minister of Defence. 

Newfoundland. 

The Eight Honourable Sir E. P. Morris, K.C.M.G., Prime Minister. 

India. . - 

The Eight Honourable A. Chamberlain, Secretary of State for India. 
Sir J. S. Meston, K.C.S.L, Lieutenant-Governor of the United Provinces. 
Colonel, His Highness The Maharaja of Bikaner, G.C.S.I., G.C.I.E., A.D.C. 
Sir S. P. SiNHA, Member Designate of the Executive Council of the Governor of 

Bengal. 
Mr. H. C. M. Lambert, C.B., Secretary ,to the Conference. 
Mr. E. J. Harding, Junior Assistant Secretary to the Conference. 

Three were also present : 
Sir G. V. (Fiddes, G.C.M.G., C.B., Permanent Under Secretary of State for the 

Colonies. 
Mr. A. D. Steel-Maitland, M.P., Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for 

the Colonies. 
The Eight Honourable Sir Maurice de Bunsen, G.C.M.G., G.C.V.O., C.B., Acting 

Assistant under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. 
The Eight Honourable Sir F. Ponsonby, K.C.V.O., Keeper of the Privy Purse. 
Lieutenant-General Sir C. F. N. Macready, K.O.B., K.C.M.G., Adjutant-General 

to the Forces. , ' 

Sir W. Graham Greene, K.C.B., Secretary of the Admiralty. 
Sir H. Llewellyn Smith, K.C.B., Permanent Secretary, Board of Trade. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 123 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Mr. Gaknham Roper, C.B., Assistant Secretary, Harbour 'Department, Board of 

Trade. 
Mr. H. Fountain, C.B., C.M.G., Assistant Secretary, Commercial Department, 

Board of Trade. 
Mr. Percy. Ashley, Board of Trade. 
Lieutenant-Colonel W. Dally Jones, Assistant Secretary to the War Cabinet, 

and 
Private Secretaries. 

National War Museum. 

Chairman: I have been asked to 'mention to the Conference that there is a pro- 
posal emanating from His Majesty's Office of Works for the establishment of a National 
War Museum in this country, and a letter* was addressed to me by the Director- 
General asking me to call the attention of the Dominions, Colonies, and all parts of 
the Empire to it, on the ground that it will not be complete if it does not illustrate by 
documents and materials, etc., the part which the Dominions have played in the War. 
On the other hand, it is thought probable that the Dominions will have their own 
museums. I thought the simplest plan was to mention it here, and then to send a 
copy of this letter to the Governors, and also to the Ministers over here. 

Sir Joseph Ward : We have our museum in New Zealand where we want to 
deposit some of the war relics, but I suppose all the countries will really have an excess 
of them. 

Chairman : Yes, I think so. 



Imperial Preference. 

Chairman: Is Mr. Massey ready to propose his Preference Resolution? 
Mr. Massey : I move it, of course, but I do not think we need to discuss it now. 
Chairman • This is the Resolution which was settled this morning at the Imperial 
War Cabinet : — 

" The time has arrived when all possible encouragement should be given 
to the development of Imperial resources and especially to making the Empire 
independent of other countries in respect of food supplies, raw materials and 
essential industries. With these objects in view this Conference expresses itself 
in favour of — 

"(1) The principle that each part of the Empire, having due regard to the 
interests of our Allies, shall give specially-favourable treatment and 
facilities to the produce and manufactures of other parts of the 
Empire ; 

" (2) Arrangements by which intending emigrants from the United King- 
dom may be induced to settle in countries under the British flag. 1 ' 

Do you move that, Mr. Massey, in place of the motion which stands in your 
name ? 

Mr. Massey: Yes. 
^Chairman: You adopt this in place of the original motion? 

Mr. Massey: Yes. 

Sir Robert Borden : I will second that Resolution. I think it should be stated 
in connection with it that the whole subject has been discussed very fully and exhaus- 

*See pages 168-170. 



124 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

tively in the Imperial War Cabinet, and the particular words of the Resolution have 
been settled by a Drafting Committee, so that great care and attention have been 
given to the precise phraseology as well as to the principle which is expressed. For 
that reason it is unnecessary here to go into any full discussion on the subject. 

Sir Joseph Ward: I would like to say that, but for this matter having been up 
before and settled by the Imperial War Cabinet this morning, this Resolution would 
certainly be a subject for a very interesting discussion at this Imperial War Con- 
ference. I think we are all strongly in favour of what is contained in this Resolution, 
and personally I am very glad to see that we are going to have a practical course 
suggested. 

Chairman : I am very glad that on this very occasion a Resolution of this character 
can be passed with absolute unanimity, not only all the representatives of the Domin- 
ions concurring in it, but also those who happen to be representatives of the Home 
Government. We have the Secretary of State for India here, and I should just like 
to repeat what I said at the beginning of our proceedings, that it adds great interest, 
I think, to the passing of this Resolution to-day that the Secretary of State for India 
is present, when we remember the history of this movement for Imperial development 
and Imperial union. I regard' this as a very great step. (Hear, hear.) 

Mr. Massry: I would just like to add to what you have said, Mr. Long, that, if 
this Conference had done nothing else but agree to this Resolution, then the convening 
of the Conference would have been justified. In the ordinary course I should have 
spoken at some length in support of it, but I have said everything I wanted to say, or 
nearly everything I wanted to say, at the Imperial War Cabinet, and it is therefore 
not necessary I should repeat it now. 

Chairman : It is passed unanimously. 

General Smuts : It is sufficiently clear from Sir Robert Borden's statement how 
the matter comes up here. 

Chairman: Yes, it comes up here after full consideration by the Imperial War 
Cabinet. 

General Smuts: And that will go on record, because otherwise one would like to 
say something here about it, which I do not think, in view of that, is necessary. 

Sir Robert Borden : For the reason which I gave I did not go into any discus- 
sion. 

General Smuts : No, but I think it should go on record. 

Sir Robert Borden: I intended that, so that it should not appear that we were 
passing the Resolution in a casual way. 

General Smuts: You say it is very important? 

Mr. Chamberlain: Very important. 

General Smuts: Yes, and therefore, otherwise, one would like to speak to it. 

Chairman : It will be recorded that the Resolution is passed unanimously. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 125 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

FIFTEENTH DAY. 

Friday, 27th April, 1917. 

The Imperial War Conference met at the Colonial Office at 3.30 p.m. 

Present : 

The Right Honourable Walter H. Long, M.P., Secretary of State for the Colonies 
(Chairman of the Conference). 

Canada. 

The Right Honourable Sir R. Borden, G.C.M.G., Prime Minister. 

The Honourable Sir G. H. Perley, K.C.M.G., Minister of Overseas Military 

Forces. 
The Honourable J. D. Hazen, Minister of Marine and Fisheries and Minister of 

the Naval Service. 

New Zealand. 

The Right Honourable W. F. Massey, Prime Minister. 

The Right Honourable Sir Joseph Ward, Bart., K.C.M.G., Minister of Finance. 

South Africa. 

Lieutenant-General the Right Honourable J. C. Smuts, Minister of Defence. 

Newfoundland. 

The Right Honourable Sir E. P. Morris, K.C.M.G., Prime Minister. 

India. 

The Right Honourable A. Chamberlain, Secretary of State for India. 
Sir J. S. Meston, K.O.S.I., Lieutenant-Governor of the United Provinces. 
Colonel His Highness.- The Maharaja of Bikaner, G.C.S.I., G.C.I.E., A.D.C. 
Sir S. P. Sinha, Member Designate of the Executive Council of the Governor of 

Bengal. 
Mr. H. C. M. Lambert, C.B., Secretary to the Conference. 
Mr. E. J. Harding, Junior Assistant Secretary to the Conference. 

There were also present: 

Sir G. V. Fiddes, G.C.M.G., C.B., Permanent Under Secretary of State for the 

Colonies. 
Mr. A. D. Steel-Maitland, M.P., Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for the 

Colonies. 
Sir Edward Troup, K.C.B., Permanent Under Secretary of State, Home Office. 
Brigadier-General B. E. W. Childs, C.M.G., Director of Personal Services, War 

Office. 
Sir E. R. Henry, G.C.V.O., K.C.B., Commissioner of Police for the Metropolis. 
Lieutenant-Colonel W. Dally Jones, Assistant Secretary to the War Cabinet. 

and 
Private Secretaries. 



126 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 



7 GEORGE V, A. <917 



Address to His Majesty the King. 

Chairman : It has been suggested to me that it might be well to ask the Conference 
to consider whether they would like to adopt a suggestion, which has been made in 
more than one quarter, that we should ask permission to be allowed to present in person 
an address to our Sovereign. If the Conference so decide, then I will submit a draft 
of an address which they may be willing to consider. Perhaps it will be moved by the 
senior Prime Minister present. I will raise this presently when we have got through 
some of the other business on the Agenda. 

Sir Joseph Ward: Does that mean that at the end of our business we should 
formally meet in the presence of the King ? 

Chairman: No; it means that we submit a request to the King to be allowed to 
present to him an address from the Conference. 

Sir Joseph Ward : Together ? 

Chairman : Yes. 

Sir Joseph Ward: All being present when the King is present? 

Chairman: Certainly; we wait upon the King at Buckingham Palace to present 
to him an address from the Conference as a body. 

Sir Joseph Ward: I think that is a- most appropriate and very fine idea. 

Chairman : We will discuss that further when General Smuts arrives. Now we 
will take the Indian Resolution. 

Reciprocity of Treatment between India and the Self-governing Dominions. 
Mr. Chamberlain: Mr. Chairman, I think I need say very little in regard to the 
Motion which I have laid before the Conference, for, thanks to the kindness of Sir 
Robert Borden — and I hope there is no impropriety in my referring to the matter — ; 
we were afforded an opportunity of discussing this subject at length and with the 
greatest freedom and informality at a gathering that he convoked. At that gathering 
Sir Satyendra Sinha expressed the feelings of Indians and put their case with a 
sympathy and earnestness, and at the same time a moderation which I know was recog- 
nized on all hands. I do not desire to-day to travel over the ground which he covered 
on that informal occasion. All! invite the Conference to do is, accepting the principle 
of reciprocity of treatment between India and the other Dominions in this matter of 
emigration and visits, to commend to the favourable consideration of the Governments 
concerned the Memorandum which we have laid before the Conference.* The presence 
of the Indian representatives at this Conference marks a new stage in the development 
of the relations between India and other portions of the Empire, and the uniform 
consideration and kindness which have been extended to me and my colleagues from 
India throughout these gatherings have greatly moved us, and will, I am sure, be 
readily acknowledged and heartily welcomed in India. We are anxious that the entry 
of India into these Conferences should pave the way to a better understanding between 
India and the other Dominions, and we hope that in time, with that better understand- 
ing and with patience and forbearance on both sides, we may arrive at a solution of 
some of the difficulties which we have hitherto been unable to solve. Mr. Chairman, 
my colleagues and I recognize the strong feeling that there is in the Dominions that 
they wish to preserve the homogeneous nature of their population and the special 
civilization which they have striven to cultivate, and I desire to make it clear that we 
neither claim nor expect anything like an unrestricted right of emigration and settle- 
ment in the Dominions. What we particularly ask is that in the first place British 
Asiatics, that is, Asiatics of British nationality, should at least not be less favourably 
treated than other Asiatics. In the second place, we would ask that the freest facilities 

*See Memorandum printed on-pp. 170-173. 



^IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 127 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

possible be given to educated Indians for travel, for study, or for visits, as apart from 
settlement, in the Dominions for any purposes. Lastly, we would ask that a kindly and 
sympathetic consideration should be given to those Indians who have already been per- 
mitted to settle in the Dominions. The subject is dealt with in more detail in the 
memorandum which we have laid before the Conference, and I think it is unnecessary 
for me to develop that detail further. 

With these few words, I will venture to move the Resolution, and I might say I* 
do so by the request of my colleagues, and in particular by the request of Sir Satyendra 
Sinha, who I had originally thought would move the Resolution himself. I beg to 
move the resolution of which I have given notice. 

Sir Robert Borden : Mr. Chairman, I think there is a distinct advantage in having 
the representatives of India at this Conference, for the reason which has already been 
stated by Mr. Chamberlain. It has given us an opportunity to meet them face to face 
and discuss in a perfectly frank and at the same time courteous way the considerations 
that have to be taken into account and the viewpoint of the different portions of the 
Empire which are here represented. I entirely agree with what Mr. Chamberlain has 
said respecting the manner in which Sir Satyendra Sinha presented the case at the 
informal gathering already alluded to. His presentation of the case was courteous, 
moderate, and reasonable, but it was not the less impressive on that account. Mr. 
Chamberlain has stated in a sentence the ideal and the aspiration of the self-governing 
Dominions with regard to their present social order and the type of civilization which 
they are desirous of building up. It must not be understood that because of that ideal 
and because of that aspiration they desire to cast the slightest reflection on other ideals 
of civilization which are of a more ancient order, and which may, and undoubtedly do, 
possess certain advantages and merits to which we cannot altogether lay the same 
claim. But there is the ideal and the aspiration to which I have alluded. Of course 
it is manifest that public opinion in all the Dominions of the Empire must be taken 
into account; because it would be idle for any Government to undertake what public 
opinion would not in the end sanction or sustain. 

I am very happy indeed to agree to the Resolution which Mr. Chamberlain has 
moved, and to say also that the consideration he has mentioned and those which are 
set forth in the Memorandum alluded to in the Resolution, will be taken into account. 
We shall do our best to arrive at a fair understanding with regard to these matters, 
and I have a somewhat confident hope that a clear understanding will be reached. 

Chairman : Does any other member of the Conference wish to make any remark ? 

Mr. Massey : I would just like to say, before you put the question, Mr. Long, that I 
support the motion which has been moved by Mr. Chamberlain, and I am quite sure 
that I express the opinion of my fellow members when I say, following up the point 
that has been made by Sir Robert Borden, that it has been a great advantage to us and 
to the Conference to have had with us the representatives of India during the last few 
weeks. I trust that, with the good start which has been made — and I think that a very 
good start has been made — the people of the different Dominions and the native races 
of India will be able to work together for the good of the Empire of which we are 
fellow citizens, and I hope that when another Conference comes along, as it will in 
due course, we shall all meet again, and continue to build upon the foundation which 
has been laid since we met a few weeks ago. 

Sir Satyendra Sinha : Permit me just to say in one word what I feel with regard 
to the very sympathetic and courteous treatment with which the Conference has met 
this question of the position of Indians in the Empire. I am perfectly certain that 
the spirit which has been shown by my fellow members of this Conference augurs well 
for the future, and that such question's as are still outstanding will be solved to the 
satisfaction of both parties in the same spirit as this has been treated now. I desire to 
thank the members of the Conference from all the Dominions overseas for the kindness 
and courtesy with which they have treated this question. 



128 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Sir Joseph Ward: Mr. Long, the way this Conference has stood out is specially 
interesting from the fact that one of the greatest possessions of the British Empire has 
had representation here in the person of the members from India, in addition to the 
distinguished representative of India who is in His Majesty's Government. It marks 
an accession to the very fast development which has already taken place between all 
parts of the Empire, particularly in their attachment to the Motherland, which augurs 
well for the future development in the direction of greater solidarity which so many 
people have earnestly hoped might be brought about as the years roll by. In the future 
development of the Empire, it appears to me that the attendance of these gentlemen 
here marks an advance in connection with Empire matters that is invaluable from the 
point of view of the Empire as a whole. I am one of those who do not believe it to be 
possible to have a satisfactory condition of things from an Empire point of view 
brought about for its future regulation from the heart of the Empire unless India has 
representation. Apart altogether from the privilege of having the opportunity of 
meeting the representatives from India upon this occasion, it is to my mind an epoch- 
making event, which is in all probability destined to be one of great significance, and 
I hope of potent value to the Empire as a whole in the years that are to come. The 
Resolution, the preliminaries to which were discussed at that informal gathering in 
Sir Robert Borden's room a week or so ago, is one that to a very large extent is more 
cf a general character than a specific one. It is clear to my mind that in our respective 
countries, at all events in New Zealand, when the Resolution as modified comes up 
for discussion there, it will be carefully viewed by Members of Parliament, and, 
through them, by the people of the country. I am quite satisfied that some of the 
difficulties which in the past have existed and have been almost insuperable will within 
the limits of this Resolution probably be favourably entertained, and the fact that the 
representative of India who last spoke was so moderate in his ideas as to what should 
be done in connection with this matter will be appreciated from the point of view of 
the public men. I for one — and Mr. Massey has already spoken to the same effect in 
his remarks which he made this afternoon — will do what I can to see that this feeling 
of mutual regard, mutual attachment, mutual respect, and mutual service between the 
Motherland, the great Indian Empire, and the Oversea Dominions is carried forward 
to a point that will make it valuable for the Empire as a whole and stronger, I believe, 
for every one of us. I have very much pleasure in supporting the Resolution. 

General Smuts: I wish to say a few words, Mr. Chairman, on this subject, 
especially as the matter of the treatment of Indian immigration in South Africa as 
you know, has been a cause of constant trouble, not only between us and the Empire 
of India, but between us and the Colonial Office and the Indian Office. I agree with the 
former speakers that a departure has been made in this Conference in bringing the 
representatives from the Empire of India to this Conference, which will go far to 
obviate the recurrence of such troubles in the future. In South Africa there has been 
this fundamental trouble, that the white community have been afraid of opening the 
door too wide to Indian immigration. We am not a homogeneous, population. We 
are a white minority on a black continent, and the settlers in South Africa have for 
many years been actuated by the fear that to open the door to another non-white race 
would make the position of the few whites in South Africa very dangerous indeed. 
It is because of that fear, and not because of any other attitude towards the question 
of Asia, that they have adopted an attitude which sometimes, I am bound to admit, 
has assumed the outward form, although not the reality, of intolerance. Luckily we 
have got over those difficulties. The visit of the late Mr. Gokhale to South Africa did 
an enormous amount of good. His visit was followed later by the visit of Sir Ben- 
jamin Robertson, a distinguished public servant of India, who also assisted the Gov- 
ernment to overcome great difficulties on this point some years ago. The result has 
been the passage of legislation to which both the white and the Indian communities 
in South Africa agreed. There is still a difference of opinion on administrative 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 129 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

matters of detail, some of which are referred to in the Memorandum which is before 
us, but I feel sure, and I have always felt sure, that once the white community in 
South Africa were rid of the fear that they were going to be flooded by unlimited 
immigration from India, all the other questions would be considered subsidiary and 
would become easily and perfectly soluble. That is the position in which we are now 
— that the fear which formerly obsessed the settlers there has been removed; the great 
principle of restricting immigration for which they have contended is on our Statute 
Book with the consent of the Indian population in South Africa and the Indian 
authorities in India, and, that being so, I think that the door is open now for a peace- 
ful and statesmanlike solution of all the minor administrative troubles which occurred 
and will occur from time to time. Of course the main improvement has been the call- 
ing of India to the Council Chamber of the Empire. Here, if any question proves 
difficult of treatment, we can discuss it in a friendly way and try to find in consulta- 
tion a solution, and I am sure we shall ever find it. I for one do not consider that, 
amongst the multitudinous problems which confront us in our country, the question 
of India will trouble us much in future. 

Sir E. Morris : I should just like to say a word in favour of the Resolution. 
I think it is a distinct gain and a distinct advance, from an Empire standpoint, tlo 
have summoned the representatives of India and the Secretary of State for India to 
this Conference, not alone from the standpoint of being members of the Empire — 
and a very important portion of the Empire — but from the fact that they have, in a 
way, established the right to be here, to which I need not refer, as it is now a matter 
of history. I think the members who have taken part at this Board have very firmly 
established a claim for very great consideration from not alone the Dominions, but 
also the mother country. I think that if this departure had been made earlier, if 
the barriers which seemed to exist, and which some did not understand — the very 
serious barriers that separate India from the other portions of the Empire — had been 
removed before, the chances are that, instead of the contribution they have given to 
the War, they would probably have contributed nearly all the men that would have 
been required. Then, again, we must be alive to what is taking place in India. A 
great industrial awakening has just commenced in India, and, when I say " just 
commenced," I mean in the last few years; but there can be no question in the mind 
of any one who has studied what is going on in India, that India can never go back to 
where she was, and that in the very near future a wonderful development is going to 
take place there, and the good feeling which is now being engendered by this Confer- 
ence, and especially by this Resolution will, I think, do a great deal to promote the 
very best feeling. In Newfoundland, which I represent, we are a very small Domin- 
ion, and we have never had any restrictions whatever against India as regards immi- 
gration, and there is no likelihood of any, because we have probably not had the rea- 
sons which have made it necessary for other Dominions in the Empire to consider 
legislation of that kind. Personally, I am very pleased indeed that this Resolution 
has been proposed, and, with the other speakers, I feel that great good is certain to 
come from it. 

Chairman : May I put the Resolution ? " That the Imperial War Conference, 
' having examined the Memorandum on the position of Indians in the Self-governing 
"Dominions, presented by the Indian representatives to the Conference, accepts the 
" principle of reciprocity of treatment between India and the Dominions, and recom- 
" mends the Memorandum to the favourable consideration of the Governments con- 
" cerned." 

Will those in favour say "Aye;" on the contrary, "Wo." — 'That is carried 
unanimously. 



42a— 9 



-130 . IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Address to His Majesty the King. 

Chairman: Before we pass to the next subject-head on the Agenda, may I ask 
the Conference whether they are prepared. to adopt the suggestion which I indicated 
a few moments ago, and which I propose to make, namely, that we should approach 
His Majesty the King, and submit a humble request that His Majesty may be pleased 
to receive us and to accept at our hands an address of loyalty? If the Conference 
agree, I should propose to move this Resolution : 

" That His Majesty the King be asked to receive the members of the 
Imperial War Conference now in session, who desire to present a humble 
address to His Majesty." 

If the Conference agree to that, then I propose to read to them a draft of the address 
which I recommend for their consideration. 

Sir Robert Borden : Mr. Chairman, I at once give my most cordial assent to the 
proposal. I think that the presentation of such an address by the Conference to the 
King in person would signalize in a very marked way, and in a very proper way, the 
important labours on which we have been engaged, and nothing could bring more 
clearly to the understanding of the people throughout the Empire the importance of 
those labours than the course which you have just now proposed. 

Mr. Massey : I agree with Sir Robert Borden. I think the idea, that has been sug- 
gested is a particularly good one, and should certainly be given effect to. I think it 
is a splendid thing that the representatives of the Dominions and India should be 
able to go along to the Sovereign, the King; and Emperor, in the great crisis through 
which they are passing and express their loyalty in the manner proposed. I am only 
sorry that there is one great Dominion, the Commonwealth of Australia, which is not 
directly represented here ; but, While regretting the absence of a representative of 
Australia, there is no doubt about the loyalty of the people of that great country — none 
whatever. It is their misfortune rather than their fault that they have no direct repre- 
sentation on the Conference.. So far as I am concerned, Mr. Long, I have no hesita- 
tion in giving my cordial and hearty support to the proposal you have made. • 

Sir Joseph Ward : Mr. Long, may I be permitted to congratulate you upon having 
brought forward this matter and to say that I do not know of anything at the moment 
which is so likely to strike the imagination of the peoples in the various portions of 
the Empire itself, and especially in the Oversea Dominions, as the attachment between 
the' important Empire work of this Conference and the King-Emperor. This is an 
epoch-making Conference in some respects 1 . We are met in the time of a titanic 
struggle for the maintenance of the Empire as a whole and the preservation of civiliza- 
tion. We have the representatives of the Indian Empire here for the first time. We 
have heard the most important proposals indicated by the Prime Minister of this 
country to-day when he was receiving the freedom of the City of London, and the 
many important matters to which he alluded there will become a question for active 
consideration in the various portions of the Empire, and to my mind there is no period 
in the history of the world, and especially in that which we regard as our own worlds 
that of the British Empire, when the feelings of the people, through their representa- 
tives, of loyalty to the King himself were more acute, stronger, and greater than at 
the present moment. Eor that reason, I think, the idea that has been suggested of 
submitting a Resolution to be presented to the King in person is one of great appro- 
priateness, and one with which I am most heartily in accord. 

Chairman: May I take it that the Conference agrees to that Resolution? 

The Maharaja of Bikaner : I only wish to say that the sentiment of loyalty and 
devotion to the KingTEmperor personally throughout India is so well-known that I 
do not think any further or long remarks are necessary from me beyond that my col- 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 131 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

leagues and I, on behalf both of British India as well as of the territories of the riding 
Princes and Chiefs, will most heartily welcome and endorse the suggestion which has 
been made. 

Chairman: May I take it that the Resolution is adopted by the Conference? 

Carried unanimously. 
Chairman : This is the proposed address : 

" To His Gracious Majesty, King George Y, the King of the United King- 
dom, of Great Britain and Ireland and the British Dominions beyond the seas ; 
Defender of the Faith, Emperor of India: May it please Your Majesty, We, 
the Members of the Imperial War Conference now in Session, approach your 
Majesty with an expression of our firm loyalty and that of the peoples whom, 
we represent to Your Majesty's throne and person. Summoned to the centre 
of Your Majesty's Empire in the midst of the greatest War that has ever afflicted 
the human race, it has been our privilege to share in the deliberations of Your 
Majesty's advisers in this country and to review with them the measures neces- 
sary to, the victorious conclusion of the conflict in which we are engaged. We 
have further in our Imperial War Conference considered the steps . which may 
be required to ensure that the fruits of victory may not be lost biy unpreparedness 
in the time of peace, and so to develop the resources of the Empire that it may 
not be possible hereafter for an unscrupulous enemy to repeat his outrages upon 
liberty and civilization. We shall return to our homes inspired by the magnifi- 
cent efforts put forth by all classes of Your Majesty's subjects throughout the 
world, confident that the trials and sacrifices borne in common must draw still 
closer the bonds of Imperial unity and co-operation, and determined each in his 
Own sphere to leave nothing undone which may attend to the safety, honour, and 
welfare of Your Majesty and Your Dominions." 

I do not know if the Conference think that that address would be in conformity 
with their wishes, or whether they would like to consider it further. 
Sir Robert Borden : I think it is quite appropriate- 
Mr. Massey : I think it fills the bill. 

Chairman : Then I will make the due submission to the King. I have already 
ascertained that it will be the King's pleasure to receive the Conference, and it will 
only be a case of receiving His Majesty's commandsi as to the time and place.* 



Notices of Motion. 

Sir Joseph Ward : May I ask leave to put on record three 'Notices of Motion which 
I have given. I want to put them in their sequence in order to have on record the fact 
that I intended when I gave notice of them to bring them up for discussion and 
decision. It is not because they are not sufficiently important to be considered that 
they have not been discussed, but it is because of the fact that time has not admitted 
of it, and one of them at least would take a considerable time to discuss. I feel it only 
right in deference to the necessities of time and the convenience of some of the mem- 
bers of the Conference who have to return to their respective countries that these 
should stand over for future consideration, but I should like to be permitted to put 
them on record, and have them included in the records) of this Conference. 

* Note. — The Address was presented to His Majesty the King at Windsor Castle on 3rd 
May, 1917. His Majesty's reply is printed on pp. 173-174. 

42a— 9J 



132 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

Chairman: Yes;. 

Sir Joseph Ward handed in the following Motions: — 

Steamship Communications. 

"That this Conference re-affirms the Resolutions passed at the Imperial 
Conferences in 1907, and 1911, that it is desirable that Great Britain should be 
connected with Canada, and, through Canada, with Australia and New Zealand, 
by the best mail service available. 

"That for this purpose a fast mail service should be established, both 
between Canada and Great Britain, by the route across Ireland, and on the 
Pacific between Vancouver, Fiji, Auckland, and Sydney; in the former case by 
steamers* capable of performing the voyage at an average speed of not less than 
25 knots, and in the later case of not less than 18 knots. 

" That, as soon as the exigencies of the War permit, the necessary harbour 
accommodation and train ferry arrangements shall be provided on the route 
chosen. 

" That such financial support as may be required to ensure the fastest 
possible service shall be jointly contributed in equitable proportions by each of 
the countries that agree to the establishment of such a service." 
Cable and Wireless Communications. 

" That it is in the highest interests of the Empire that the rates for tele- 
graphic communications between the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, 
South Africa, and India should be further materially reduced. 

" That there is real necessity for improvement in the news service of the 
Empire and that it is essential that Imperial news should reach the various 
countries of the Empire through British rather than foreign channels. 

' " That in order to ensure generally the cheapest and most secure telegraphic 
communication between the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia, and New 
Zealand, it is necessary they should co-operate in the provision of a State- 
owned cable across the Atlantic and a connecting land line from Nova Scotia 
to Montreal, which should communicate with the line across Canada now leased 
by the Pacific Cable Board. 

" That it is of vital importance that the United Kingdom, Canada, 
Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Newfoundland and India should co-operate 
in the maintenance and further development of a chain of British State-owned 
high-power wireless stations within the Empire." 

Organization for the Development of Imperial Resources. 

"That it is desirable to create a permanent organization representative of 
all parts of the Empire to investigate, co-ordinate information, and report 
periodically to the various Governments upon all matters relating to the 
development of the Empire's resources, the extension of Imperial trade, and the 
strengthening of Imperial lines of communication." 

Concluding Resolution. 

Chairman: That, gentlemen, concludes our business to-day, as I understand. 

Sir Eobert Borden : Mr. Chairman, before we' separate to-day, I should like to 
propose a Resolution, which I am sure will command not only the unanimous but the 
very hearty approval of all the Members of the Conference. It is, of course, unfortunate 
that we have not had here the advantage of the presence of representatives 
of the great Australian Commonwealth. We realize, but at the same time we deplore, 
the necessity which has prevented them from joining with us in our labours, which I 
think have been of very great importance, and in which we have, in every instance, 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 133 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

arrived at a unanimous conclusion. It is a striking fact that in this Conference every 
Kesolution has been passed by a unanimous vote. 

The observations which I desire to make relate to a motion expressing apprecia- 
tion by the members of this Conference of the labours and the service which the 
Secretary of State for the Colonies has given to us all. He has had a very long and 
distinguished career as a parliamentarian, as an administrator, as a statesman. It is 
but just to say that, in all matters of common concern to the Empire, he has always 
been characterized by exceedingly wide vision, and by a very full conception of the 
possibilities to this Empire of a more perfect Imperial unity and co-operation, and at 
the same time he has always realized the very great difficulties which lie in the path 
of those who undertake to bring about any great project for that purpose. We know 
that the Crown Colonies not yet enjoying the full measure of responsible Government, 
have been the particular care and concern of the Secretary of State, but we also realize 
that in him the self-governing Dominions have had a good friend and a stout cham- 
pion in so far as all their interests are concerned; and the very fact that he has 
possessed and has always shown the wide vision and the great conception to which I 
have alluded makes it eminently appropriate that he should fill this high office. It 
is also very appropriate, as has been observed before, that the son of a great states- 
man, who, perhaps more than any other, impressed upon the imagination of the British 
people the possibilities of a great Imperial Commonwealth, should be sitting with us 
around the table as Secretary of State for India. 

Perhaps the Secretary of State for the Colonies will permit me to say that we in 
Canada have felt an especial spirit of sympathy with him, because one who was very 
near to him indeed, and who has made the grea sacrifice for the Empire, was with us 
in Canada for many years, and it is not too n ich for me to say, that all who knew 
him there, not only respected and admired, iwvj loved him as well.* He was one of 
the finest and truest characters that it was ever my privilege to know, and I am glad 
that when I was here two years ago I had the opportunity of meeting him on his 1 
short leave from France, where he had already so splendidly distinguished himself in 
the service of his country. 

It is through the earnest and assiduous labours of Mr. Long that we have been able, 
to make such good progress and with such gratifying results as we now witness, and 
I hope all of us realize that, while the labours of this Conference hav.e been pretty 
severe throughout, they have only formed a small portion of the work which daily had 
to. be undertaken by the Secretary of State for the Colonies and by the Secretary of 
State for India as well, because they have their departmental affairs and their Parlia- 
mentary duties, which call for much of their time and energy. I think it would be 
quite inappropriate to omit a reference to the officers of the Department of -the 
Secretary of State for the Colonies, who have rendered such excellent service to the 
Conference — the Parliamentary Secretary, the Permanent Secretary, and especially 
Mr. Lambert, who, as Secretary of the Conference, has had imposed upon him very 
heavy duties which he has fulfilled most admirably. We should not forget the Assistant 
Secretary, Mr. Harding, and Colonel Dally Jones as well, who has been indefatigable 
in his attendance and in his assistance. In mentioning these names, I do not wish to 
be understood as overlooking the services and assistance which have been rendered to 
the Conference by all the officers who have been in attendance and who have aided us 
so much. 

I think we may congratulate ourselves upon the fact that the labours of the 
Conference have been attended with very useful and important results indeed. In 
some directions steps have been taken very much in advance of anything that has ever 
bpen attempted before. I am confident that in the Oversea Dominions of the Empire, 
and in the Mother Country as well, these results will be duly appreciated. It is all 
the more significant that this has been accomplished when we realize that the Con- 
ference was summoned on very short notice, that there was very little time indeed for 

* Brigadier-General Walter Long, C.M.G'., D.S.O., killed in action 28th January, 1917. 



134 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

preparation, and that the Agenda of subjects for discussion had practically to be taken 
up and considered after we had arrived in this country. It speaks well for the spirit 
of co-operation^ the desire to serve, which has animated all the members of the Con- 
ference, that these good results have been attained, notwithstanding the difficulties to 
which I have alluded. 

I therefore have the greatest confidence in submitting to the members of the Con- 
ference this Resolution : " The Members of the Conference representing India and the 
Oversea Dominions desire before they separate to convey to the Secretary of State for 
the Colonies their earnest and sincere appreciation of his labours in preparing for and 
presiding over the Conference. They desire also to put on record their deep sense of 
gratitude for the many courtesies which they have received from the Prime Minister 
and the other Members of His Majesty's Government, as well as for the generous 
hospitality which has been extended to them by the Government and people of the 
United Kingdom." 

Mr. Massey: Mr. Long, I wish to second the Motion which has just been 
moved by Sir Eobert Borden, a motion with which I thoroughly concur, and which 
I heartily support. In supporting it, I may say that about the time the Conference 
met and for some little time afterwards, I felt doubtful as to its success, and my 
doubts arose from the fact that, in the case of many Ministers of the Crown in the 
United Kingdom, their time and attention were fully occupied, and very properly 
occupied, in assisting to carry on our share of the great War in which we are engaged. 
My doubts, however, have been dispelled. I am quite satisfied now that we have 
done good work, and that we have laid a foundation upon which future Conferences 
representative of the Dominions and India and the United Kingdom, and represen- 
tative of the Dependencies and gentlemen who may in the future be Secretaries of 
State for the Colonies representing the Dependencies, will be able to build a great 
constitutional edifice, consistent with the dignity and importance of the Empire to 
which we belong. I would like also to say that I think, to those who sit round this 
table and who have had an opportunity of taking part in the business of the Imperial 
"War Cabinet for the last few weeks* the proof of our success was contained in parts 
of the great speech which we heard delivered by the Prime Minister to-day in the 
Guildhall. 

I have to say, too, that I am convinced that a great part of our success has been 
due to the tact and consideration displayed by you, Sir, as President of our Proceed- 
ings, and to the courtesy extended to us as representing the Overseas Dominions during 
the time the Conference has been going on. I think, Sir, that the citizens of the 
Empire have reason to congratulate themselves upon the calibre of the men who 
have in years gone by occupied the position which you now occupy, and which you 
worthily fill — I say upon their calibre, upon their statesmanlike qualities, and upon 
their wide outlook preparing for the future Imperial possibilities. Sir Robert Borden 
has referred to a gentleman who has passed away, whose name even to-day is 
reverenced in the Oversea Dominions; I speak of the Right Honourable Joseph 
Chamberlain. I may say now — and I am not expressing this opinion because we are 
privileged to have his son with us at this Conference — that in connection with Imperial 
matters, I looked upon the Right Honourable Joseph Chamberlain as my Leader, and 
when my fellow Members requested me to occupy a seat on the Front Opposition Bench 
in the Parliament of New Zealand, one of my first duties — this is on record — was to 
second a motion moved by the then Prime Minister expressing the appreciation of tbe 
New Zealand Parliament of the great services rendered by the gentleman whose name 
has been mentioned. I shall never forget that debate; it was one of the most inter- 
esting debates in which I ever took part, and many very fine things were said of the 
gentleman who was then alive, but who, unfortunately for the Empire, has since that 
date passed away. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 135 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

I should like, too, to express on my own behalf, and on behalf of the people whom 
Sir Joseph Ward and I represent here, our sympathy with you, Sir, in the bereavement 
which you and the other members of your family sustained only a few weeks ago; 
your son gave his life for his fellow citizens, for his King, and his country, and I 
need hardly say that the manner of his death was worthy of the very highest traditions 
of the great Imperial race to which he belonged. I should like to add my tribute on 
account of the assistance given to us and the courtesy extended to us by the different 
Government officials, using that general term for want of a better, one, who have been 
present at the meetings held in connection with this Conference. 

I have nothing more to say, except that I second the Motion moved by Sir Eobert 
Borden. 

General Smuts: I cordially endorse the remarks which have fallen from the 
previous speakers. 

Sir Edward Morris : I should like also, Mr. Long, to add my entire support to 
everything which has been so appropriately said by Sir Eobert Borden and by Mr. 
Massey in relation to your work and that of the gentlemen who have been named. 

Sir James Meston: We, who come from India and are the youngest recruits at 
this Conference, would like to add our tribute to what has already been said. It is 
a new, and I may say a wholly unexpected, experience for us that we should be asked 
to sit at a Conference presided over by the Secretary of State for the Colonies. Some 
of us were a little apprehensive and a little timorous of the Colonial organization, but 
that apprehension and those feelings have been entirely dispelled, partly by the great 
kindness of the Dominions representatives but largely by your own personal care and 
courtesy for us. We feel we have some reason to think that not only the consideration 
which we have received here, but the very fact of our presence here, is due to your 
good will, and we wish to return you our cordial thanks for all that you have done 
for us during our stay here. We should also like to add our expression of appreciation 
of the work that has been done for us and the help that has been given us by the per- 
manent officials of the Conference. 

Sir Joseph Ward: Before you reply, Mr. Long, I would like to add my words 
of sincere appreciation to you for the courtesy and consideration you have extended 
to myself among the other gentlemen who are here since my visit to London upon 
this important occasion. I endorse fully those words which have been so well 
expressed both by Sir Robert Borden and Mr. Massey as conveying my appreciation 
of the ability which has been shown by you in connection with the procedure of the 
Conference. I would like to add my acknowledgment also of the good work done 
by the officers. It has been to me a matter of very great surprise the regularity with 
' which important and detailed information has come to the whole of us since our 
arrival in London from the high officials, and those attached to the Conference itself, 
since the beginning of this Conference. I want to express my warm appreciation for 
the general courtesy extended to us by the whole of the officials in that respect. 

I would like also to add my words of pleasure at the outcome of this last meeting 
that is going on record from two Prime Ministers, one of Canada, and one of New 
Zealand, with regard to that portion of the work which appears to me to be starting 
on a practical road to solution now, which was initiated and put on record all over the 
world by the late Mr. Joseph Chamberlain. It appears to me to be most appropriate 
that the distinguished son of a distinguished father should be here on an occasion 
when the fact that this Conference has affirmed unanimously his views upon the all- 
important matter of Preference has been indicated by the Prime Minister of this 
country to-day as the policy which, as I gather from his speech, is likely to be 
put into practice in the near future after the war. I make this statement because I 
happen always to have been a supporter of Preference throughout the Empire, and 
I recollect perfectly well, at the time it was first announced, speaking upon it in our 



136 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

country, and I have consistently supported something of the kind being carried into 
practice ever since. So it is on this occasion a matter of very great interest to me 
that upon the last day of the meeting of this Conference there should be a reference 
sincerely made to the fact that Mr. Austen Chamberlain is here taking part in a 
Conference that has been to some extent, I hope, helpful in affirming the views of his 
late distinguished father in connection with that all-important matter. 

I think the occasion is an appropriate one for me to say, with reference to one 
of the Resolutions which, under your guidance as Chairman of this Conference, has 
been passed, that I feel persuaded that it will not in the recess be allowed to sink 
into forgetfulness either on your part or on the part of any one of us. We have 
passed one Resolution, and I am going to quote a part of it: "The Imperial War 
Conference are of opinion that the readjustment of the constitutional relations of the 
component parts of the Empire is too important and intricate a subject to be dealt 
with during the War, and that it should form the subject of a special Imperial 
Conference to be summoned as soon as possible after the cessation of hostilities." 
It may be inappropriate to suggest to Mr. Long anything which he does not conceive 
to be his duty in connection with a matter of this kind, but I want to say that before 
the meeting of the present Conference, important as it has been — and it has been 
very important— there were aspirations certainly on the part of the people of the 
Dominion from which Mr. Massey and I come that something of that kind in the 
general interests of the Empire should be done. Owing to the impossibility of doing 
it as the outcome of this War, and from the information that came before us here, it 
appeared to be quite right and unavoidable to defer it. In my opinion, whoever may 
come to the next Imperial Conference — and I hope Mr. Long may continue to occupy 
the position he holds, and to be responsible for the information going out to the 
respective Governments — the matter is so important that the representatives of the 
Overseas Countries ought not to leave their countries to come here without knowing 
that this is intended to be brought up specially with a view to discussion, however 
long a time it may take, in order to prevent the possibility after peace comes of 
altogether too quickly forgetting the circumstance that during the War, from the 
necessities of the War which stand before us so prominently, its consideration was 
deferred. There should not be a long lapse of time allowed for men to remain in 
their own countries for a long time without having as early an opportunity as possible 
of arriving at some decision upon a matter which I believe to be vital for the future 
of the Empire itself. I briefly call attention to it as it is a very important matter. 
There are numbers of people all over the British Empire who so regard it, and I am 
sure we ought to be able, whoever comes to a Conference in the future, to know 
that this is one of the matters which the British Government propose should be 
brought up for serious consideration at the Imperial Conference. I feel it my duty 
to allude to it, and I would only further say that the work done by the Conference 
\vill, on the whole, I think, have good results. I am afraid we have been naturally 
and unavoidably at times the cause of a good deal of extra work being imposed upon 
Mr. Long and those who are associated with him, and I want to acknowledge my per- 
sonal indebtedness to him and to them for the way in which they have made our course 
easy. 

Mr. Hazen : Mr. Chairman, I should like to add my few words of praise to those 
which have been uttered by the other members of this Conference. I fully concur in 
the Resolution that is placed before the Conference which is now under consideration, 
and with the remarks that have been made by my leader, Sir Robert Borden, and by 
the Prime Minister of New Zealand with regard to it. It might not perhaps be unfit 
for me -to say that I cordially agree that the Chairman has presided over the delibera- 
tions of this Convention with infinite patience, with unfailing courtesy, and with very 
great ability, and that the promptness with which he has dealt with the different 
matters that have been brought before us for consideration, and the tact which he has 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 137 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

displayed on all occasions have had very great influence in shortening the proceedings 
of the Convention, which might otherwise have been extended to very great length. 

I would like also to say that I agree fully with what has been said with regard to 
the pleasure it has been to us, and the advantage it has been to us, of having here as 
a representative of India, the son of that great Imperial statesman, the late Right 
Honourable Joseph Chamberlain. I have always been a strong supporter of Prefer- 
ence. I have admired the work which Mr. Chamberlain did in advocacy of that great 
scheme, which would do so much to promote Imperial unity, in my opinion, and to 
promote the welfare of the Motherland and of the Dominions beyond the seas which 
make up the British Empire, and I think we may safely say to-day that the work 
which Mr. Chamberlain did twenty years ago is bearing fruit, the fruition of which 
will be seen in the very near future. 

While not in any way disagreeing with what has been said with regard to the 
efficiency of those who have been the officials of this Convention, but on the contrary 
agreeing with every word that has been said with respect to their competence, courtesy, 
and ability, might I be permitted to suggest that it might possibly add to the efficiency 
of future conferences of this description if a portion of the Secretariat at least were 
composed of officials of the Oversea Dominions, representatives from which meet here 
for the purpose of considering the different matters that are placed before us. I 
simply mention that as an idea which has occurred to me, without attempting to 
elaborate it on the present occasion. 

Sir George Pebley: Mr. Long, I agree entirely with what has fallen from Sir 
Robert Borden and other members of the Conference in this connection, and I simply 
wish to say that perhaps no member of the Conference is in a better position to judge 
of the way in which you, Sir, have dealt with all matters connected with the Dominions, 
because in carrying out the duties of High Commissioner here, it has been my privilege 
and my pleasure to see a great deal of the present Colonial Secretary as well as of his 
predecessors, and I can bear witness that no one could have been more courteous or 
kind in dealing with the matters which are brought to his attention, or could have 
shown greater sympathy with the views and feelings of the Dominions, than Mr. Long 
has. Therefore I have great pleasure in supporting this Resolution, which, I think, 
deals with the matter exactly as it should be dealt with. 

Sir Robert Bobden : I have moved, and Mr. Massey has seconded, the Resolution 
which has already been read. Will those in favour signify the same by saying " Aye." 
— The Resolution is carried unanimously. 

Chaibman: Sir Robert Borden, Mr. Massey, and Gentlemen, — Perhaps you will 
allow me in the first place to thank Sir Robert Borden very warmly indeed for the 
reference he was good enough to make to my son. I value that reference and the 
words he was good enough to employ more than I can describe, because on the record 
of our Proceedings will go the testimony that the Prime Minister of Canada was good 
enough to pay to one whom he knew very well, who spent two eventful years of his 
life in Canada, and of whom Sir Robert Borden has been good enough to express the 
opinion which. he and those who knew him in Canada formed, and which I, as his 
father, may perhaps be allowed to say I believe is not exaggerated. At all events, this 
I can say, that through all his life his one object was to do his duty. In the perform- 
ance of his duty he ultimately gave his life, and I do not think any man, whoever he 
is, can do more than that during life, or can do more than that when the time comes 
to make the great sacrifice. I am grateful to Sir Robert Borden for what he said. 

Gentlemen, I need hardly assure you that I am very appreciative of the very 
generous words used both by the proposer and seconder and those who have supported 
this Motion. I am very conscious of my own innumerable shortcomings, and I confess 
I approached the task of presiding over this Conference with very great anxiety and 
no little misgiving, because I felt very much that our Conference would suffer in 
comparison with preceding Conferences by the absence of the Prime Minister. He is 



138 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

the President of the Conference, and as a rule presides over, at all events, a great part 
of the proceedings. Owing to the War, it was impossible to* have him in the Chair, 
and nobody, I know, regretted his absence more than he did himself, unless it be 
myself ; but I am not quite sure that I' have regretted it altogether. I have regretted 
it for your sakes, Gentlemen, but I have not regretted it for my own, because it has 
enabled me to enjoy an honour and a privilege, the greatest which has ever fallen to 
me in my life, of presiding over this most representative and most distinguished 
assembly. Of course I recognize, as we all do, that the absence of Australia has made 
a great gap, and that consequently the Imperial representation has not been complete. 
The absence of Australia is due, as we have been reminded to-day, to no fault of 
Australia's, and to no difference of opinion; it has been due to the unfortunate cir- 
cumstances which detained the Prime Minister in Australia and made it impossible 
for him to send a representative. I regret, of course, the absence of Australia, but 
I believe that in everything we have done we shall have the very cordial support of 
the Australian Government when they learn, as they will in due course, what our 
work has been. 

Gentlemen, I may be allowed to thank you for your references to my assistants 
here, upon whose shoulders has fallen the real burden of the work. If you are satisfied 
with the way in which the Conference has performed its duties and has generally been 
conducted, that satisfaction is due in the first place to Mr. Lambert, the Secretary of 
the Conference, who has laboured day and night — I speak quite advisedly — in the per- 
formance of his very difficult task, rendered more difficult, as Sir Eobert Borden 
reminded us, by the fact that a great deal of our work came on rapidly during our 
Session, and that we had not the long weeks and months of previous preparation 
which is usually the case in connection with Conferences. He has been most ably 
assisted by Mr. Harding, and I am glad indeed to know that this Conference has been 
pleased to recognize their labours, and also those of Colonel Dally Jones, the repre- 
sentative of the Imperial War Cabinet, whose assistance — and I speak from my own 
personal experience — has been of the greatest possible value. May I add that on many 
occasions when I have required counsel and advice I have always been able to fall back 
upon the wisdom, ripe judgment, and experience of Sir George Piddes, who is the 
head of this great Office. 

Gentlemen, will you bear with me for a very few moments — and I promise to be 
very brief — while I just say a word as to what we have done. I too, in conjunction 
with those who have spoken to-day, regard the formal inclusion of India in our 
councils perhaps the biggest step we have made for a very long time. I would like to 
express my thanks to the Secretary of State for India and to the distinguished repre- 
sentatives from India for the way in which they have aided us in our councils here, 
and I desire to thank them personally for the immense help they have given to us in 
conducting our proceedings. Of course it has been of enormous assistance to me to 
have the Secretary of State for India here, and to bave representatives of India at the 
first Conference over which I have been called upon to preside. It has been to me a 
very great privilege, which I shall remember as long as I live. I have to thank all the 
representatives of the Dominions for the rare — I do not know that it is rare, but for 
the very great splendid generosity which they have shown to me; they have borne with 
all those shortcomings to which I have referred earlier with a splendid patience and a 
wonderful resignation, and between us we have managed to conduct our business, 
I hope, in a businesslike way, and I hope, as I believe, that advantage will accrue to 
the State. After all, we have dealt with questions such as the Constitution of the 
Empire, and questions of the greatest importance in regard to trade, and I, for one, 
hope that in any rebuilding up of the British Empire, trade, industry, and labour will 
be regarded as three of the most important foundation stones of its future greatness. 
We bave dealt with the question of closer alliance within the Empire by a preferential 
system ; and we have dealt with some minor questions, which, although not of the same 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 139 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

importance, are of very great importance both to the Government here at home and to 
the various parts of the British Empire throughout the world. I am one of those who 
firmly believe in Conferences round a table ; I believe if you can only get people, how- 
ever different they may be in their views, or however opposed to each other, once round 
a table and get them to discuss things in a businesslike way, it is wonderful how diffi- 
culties seem to melt and obstacles to disappear, and you arrive at conclusions which, 
when you started' your discussions, you would have thought to be impossible. 

I am confident that out of the very close and intimate relations which have existed 
between us round this table there must grow very rich fruit for the Empire, through 
those whom we represent, in the future. We learn from each other; we help each 
other; and I cannot help thinking that our meetings both in the War Cabinet and in 
the War Conference will tend to bring this War to a more rapid conclusion, and I 
believe we shall contribute to one of the results which must follow from the War, viz., 
out of all this sacrifice and suffering — and surely greater sacrifice and greater suffering 
has never been found in the whole history of the world than this War now tells the tale 
of, every day adds to it and every day gives us a record of some new deed of heroism 
and some new and heavy sorrow brought to some fresh home — there must come for the 
British Empire a greater future. I am one of those who believe that our evolution is 
none the worse because it is slow and very often illogical. I hope we shall not be too 
anxious — and this I have ventured to say before, I think — to be in a hurry, but that 
we shall go rather slowly, though none the less steadily and surely, towards the goal 
we have in view, viz., the greater consolidation of the Empire for the advantage of the 
Empire, and for the advantage of all its citizens. I believe that out of all this the 
Empire will emerge purified by the suffering which she has endured, strengthened by 
the greater knowledge of her peoples in her different parts, which must result from 
Conferences like this, consolidated by the efforts which we in this Conference have 
made and by the work which we have done; if that be true, gentlemen, then surely we 
may look forward to the time when the Empire will be able to face the world as the 
determined friend of peace and progress, and the undying enemy of tyranny and lust. 
It is because I feel our work contributes to this great supreme Imperial end that I am 
proud indeed to have been permitted to take a humble part in it, and to you, gentle- 
men, who have been so kind and generous to me as Chairman of this Conference I 
tender my warmest, my most respectful thanks; and I repeat that as long as I live I 
shall esteem it the greatest honour of my life that I have been allowed, as Secretary of 
State for the Colonies, to preside over this great Conference. 

Mr. Chamberlain: Mr. Long, may I add one word of personal thanks to Sir 
Robert Borden and the other gentlemen who have spoken of my father's work, and 
who have welcomed me for his sake to this Conference. I am deeply touched by what 
they said, and it will be very gratifying to my family as well as to myself. 



140 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 



III. PAPERS LAID BEFORE THE CONFERENCE. 



The Trade Commissioner Service. 

(Memorandum prepared by the Board of Trade.) 
[See discussion reported at pages 21-26.~] 

During the discussion on preferential trade at the Imperial Conference of 1907, 
Sir Joseph Ward called attention to the absence of any official commercial representa- 
tives of the United Kingdom in the Self-governing Dominions, and pointed out the 
need of officers to whom persons desirous of trading with manufacturers in the Mother 
Country could go for information. Mr. Lloyd George, then President of the Board of 
Trade, was able to inform the Conference a few days later that His Majesty's Govern- 
ment was arranging for the appointment of officers to investigate trade conditions and 
requirements in the Self-governing Dominions overseas. Four of these Trade Com- 
missioners were subsequently appointed, one for Canada, one for Australia, one for 
New Zealand, and one for South Africa; and the purview of the Trade Commissioner 
in Canada was extended later so as to cover Newfoundland. The appointments made 
were notified by the Colonial Office to the Governments of the Dominions concerned 
in July, 1908. 

The four Trade Commissioners are officers of the Board of Trade. They have no 
definite official status or rank in the Dominions in which they are situated, but are 
instructed to seek, on arrival, introductions to the Prime Minister and to such other 
Ministers as are likely to be of assistance to them in the furtherance of their duties, 
and to cultivate cordial relations with the heads of Government departments and with 
the departments themselves, in order to secure their co-operation. 

Experience has shown that the creation of these posts has been of real value in 
promoting trade between the United Kingdom and the Dominions. The Trade Com- 
missioners supply to the Department of Commercial Intelligence of the Board of Trade 
a regular flow of commercial information as to openings for British trade; maintain 
an active correspondence with firms in the United Kingdom who wish to extend their 
trade with the Dominions; and receive many applications from local importers who 
wish to enter into business relations with the Mother Country. They return at regular 
intervals to the United Kingdom in order that they may visit the principal industrial 
and commercial centres and meet personally firms and individuals, interested in trade 
with the Dominions. Their work has recently been examined by the Dominions Royal 
Commission during their tour throughout the Empire, and in their Final Report the 
Commission expressed the opinion that the operations of the Commissioners have been 
of considerable advantage to British trade.* The Commission have also recom- 
mended the appointment of additional Commissioners in the Self-governing Dominions, 
namely, three in Canada, three in Australia, and two in South Africa, making eight 
additional appointments in all. 

The Board of Trade have also for some time past been contemplating the strength- 
ening of the present Trade Commissioner Service in the Dominions and its extension 
to other parts of the Empire, and have now decided to provide for a service consisting 
of sixteen Trade Commissioners in the Empire — an addition of twelve to the present 
service. 

* Pages 144-145 of [Cd. 8462]. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 141 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

The Board have not yet decided definitely on the allocation of the new service 
throughout the Empire, but they propose provisionally that four Trade Commissioners 
should be stationed in Canada (one of whom will also deal with trade in Newfound- 
land) ; two in Australia ; one in New Zealand ; two in South Africa ; two in India ; three 
in parts of the Empire not possessing responsible government; as well as one Com- 
missioner for special duties, who would have his headquarters at the Board of Trade 
in London and would be available for special missions. The Trade Commissioners in 
Canada will probably be stationed at .Montreal, Toronto, Winnipeg, and Vancouver 
respectively; in Australia, at Melbourne and Sydney; in New Zealand, at Wellington; 
and in South Africa, at Cape Town and Johannesburg. The headquarters of the four 
Trade Commissioners at present are Montreal, Melbourne, Wellington, and Cape Town. 
His Majesty's Government are prepared to find the necessary funds for the establishment 
of this enlarged service, and it is hoped that a beginning may be made with it before 
the end of the War. 

The present Trade Commissioners are not specifically charged with the duty of 
watching over the trade interests of parts of the Empire other than the United King- 
dom, though they are authorized to reply to inquiries from firms in other Dominions 
and British Possessions. His Majesty's Government would be glad to discuss with the 
Governments of any of the Dominions who may desire to use the service the best means 
by which a system of further co-operation oan be instituted with a view to making the 
extended service of Trade Commissioners as useful as possible to the Empire as a whole. 

Board of Trade, j 

March, 1917. 



n. 

Minute by the Prince of Wales. 

[See discussion reported at pages %8-kk and 9^-102.'] 

The Prime Minister,— 

I have the honour to enclose a memorandum by the Director of Graves Begistra- 
tion and Inquiries with regard to the future development of the Prince of Wales's 
Committee for the care of Soldiers' Graves. The original intention was that, after the 
War, this Committee should take over the work of the Directorate. It is, however, 
pointed out in this memorandum that not only does the Committee now require recon- 
struction, but that there would be considerable advantage in establishing it on an 
official basis so that it might forthwith, and within the necessary military restrictions, 
begin to assume the functions of the Directorate; by this means the danger of a break 
of continuity in the work on the cessation of hostilities might be avoided. 

I understand that it was felt by the Army Council, when proposing the creation 
of this Committee, that the intimate nature of the work to be undertaken made it 
desirable to appoint an organization ad hoc rather than to entrust this work to one of 
the existing Government Offices, and that the experience of the Directorate confirms 
this view. 

But the accession to this Committee of the representatives of the Dominion Gov- 
ernments, of the Colonies, and of the Government of India, points to a development of 
its official status as originally conceived. 

The development which seems most suitable to this Committee is that it should 
now be converted into a Joint Committee of the Governments of the Empire, or into 
a statutory body of Commissioners somewhat on the lines of the Development Com- 
mission. Particulars as to the secretariat suggested are to be found in the annexed 
memorandum from the Director. 



142 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

It is thought that, while there is no Imperial office in existence to which such an 
Imperial Commission or Committee could be properly attached, it would probably be 
necessary for the sums voted for its use to be shown in the vote of one of the Govern- 
ment offices of the various Parliaments of the Empire. In the case of the United King- 
dom, the Treasury or the War Office would be equally suitable for this purpose. But 
the fact that the War Office has been responsible for the work during the War, and 
that this work is essentially of a military character, would indicate certain advantages 
in linking up the Commission with the War Office. 

It is therefore suggested that the committee or body of Commissioners should 
be constituted as follows : — The members should not be more than fourteen in number, 
and should include the Secretary of State for War, the Secretary of State for the 
Colonies, the Secretary of State for India, the First Commissioner of Works, or their 
duly accedited representatives, the High Commissioners of the Self-governing Dom- 
inions, the present Director of Graves 1 Registration and Inquiries, and the two Officers 
Commanding the Graves Registration Units in France and in the East respectively. 
It is further suggested that the Secretary of State for War should be ex officio Chair- 
man of the Committee or Commissioners, and that a Vice-Chairman should be appointed 
who possesses experience of the military and international aspects of the work of the 
Directorate during the War. 

It is suggested that, if this proposal is approved by the Prime Minister, the oppor- 
tunity now offered by the meeting of the Imperial War Conference in London should 
be utilized for obtaining a dicision on the question by the other Governments of the 
Empire. 

The decision which is asked of the Imperial Conference is as to whether the 
Governments of which it is composed will approve of the creation either of (a) an 
Imperial Joint Committee or (b) of a statutory body of Commissioners (with power 
to appoint advisory committees), of which the Secretary of State for War (Chairman), 
the Secretary of State for the Colonies, the Secretary of State for India, the First 
Commissioner of Works, or their duly accredited representatives, and the High Com- 
missioners of the Self-governing Dominions, should be ex officio members, together 
with, say, six other nominees appointed by the King by Royal Warrant, of which the 
Prince of Walesi should b|e President, and which should be empowered to maintain, 
through a secretarial staff, all military graves connected with the great War, out of 
such moneys as may be voted for the purpose by the Governments of the Empire or 
may be raised by public subscription. 

I should like to add that, whatever the decision of the Imperial Conference may 
be, I hope that every effort may be made to continue without a break the work that 
has been done during the War. I am glad to have had the opportunity at the front 
of taking a personal interest in this work. 

In looking forward to the time when peace may hie restored, the thoughts of all 
turn instinctively to the honoured dead who rest in many lands across the seas and to 
whose memory the Empire owes a duty which must never be forgotten. Future genera- 
tions will judge u® by the effort we made to fulfil that duty, and I hope that inl under- 
taking it it will be possible to enlist the representatives of all those who came forward 
to help the Empire in the hour of need. 

I know it will be the special wish of all that those sacred portions of her land 
which France has generously reserved in perpetuity as the last resting place of so 
many of our soldiers should be cared for by us in a manner worthy of the honour and 
dignity of two great nations. 

EDWARD P., 

President. 
Winchester House, Prince of Wales's Committee for the 

St. James Square, care of Soldiers' Graves. 

London, S.W. 
15th March, 1917. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 143 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Memorandum by the Director of Graves Registration and Inquiries. 

The work of the Directorate of Graves Registration and Inquiries and of the 
Graves Registration Unitsi in the different theatres of war has greatly expanded since 
the formation of this new branch of the Army early in 1915 under Lieutenant-General 
Sir C. F. N. Macready, then Adjutant-General to the British Forces in France. There 
has been an increase in the original branches of the work, the number of graves now 
registered amounting in France and Belgium alone to more than 150,000, and the 
Directorate being responsible for graves in Egypt, the Balkans, and Mesopotamia, 
and for recording those in the United Kingdom; the department which, with the 
co-operation and advice of the Director of the Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew, undertakes 
the planting and laying out of the scattered burial grounds, has also been considerably 
extended, and the International and Imperial aspects of the work have added an 
altogether new importance to its activities. 

1. On the International side, the French Government has, in consultation with 
the Directorate, passed a law under which the French nation undertakes the whole 
cost of the provision, in perpetuity, of land for the graves of Allied soldiers 1 in French 
territory. The administration of this law, so far as British graves are concerned, is 
carried out under the French Ministry of War by a Commission composed of repre- 
sentatives of the Directorate and the French Army. This Commission has already 
completed all the arrangements preliminary to acquisition in the case of sixty of the 
British burial grounds in France, the total number of which is now over four hundred. 
The Directorate has also conducted negotiations with the Belgian Government with 
regard to the provision of land in Belgian territory, and there is now every reason 
to hope, though there has been considerable delay on the part of other British Govern- 
ment departments in accepting the Belgian proposals, that these negotiations will 
result in an agreement embodying conditions similar to those granted by the French 
Government. 

2. On the Imperial side, the increase in the Dominion forces on the various fronts, 
and the corresponding casualties, have led the Dominion Governments and military 
authorities, just as those of India in the earlier days of the War, to. take a direct 
interest in the work of the Directorate. They now look to it as the organization res- 
ponsible for the registration and care of the graves of Dominion soldiers. All branches 
of the Directorate have consequently been developed to meet the special requirements 
of the Dominions and India. The centralization which has thus resulted meets the 
necessity of having one central authority through which all negotiations with the 
French and Belgian Governments may be conducted. 

3. If arrangements can now be made to ensure that the cessation of hostilities 
does not cause any break in the continuity of this work, the Empire will be spared the 
reflections which weighed on the conscience of the British nation when, nearly twenty 
years after the conclusion of the Crimean War, it became known that the last resting 
places of those who had fallen in that war had, except in individual instances, remained 
uncared for and neglected. With, such examples as this as a warning, the Army 
towards the end of 1915 proposed to the Government the appointment of a National 
Committee for the Care of Soldiers' Graves, which should take over the work of the 
Directorate after the War. It was felt that the nation would expect that the Govern- 
ment should undertake the care of the last resting places of those who had fallen, but 
at the same time that relatives would consider that work of so intimate a nature 
should be entrusted to a specially appointed body rather than to any existing Govern- 
ment Department. The unprecedented extent of our losses also justified a new depart- 
ure. As a result a Committee was appointed by the Prime Minister in January, 1916, 
and His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales was graciously pleased to accept the 
presidency. 

But if the Committee is to be ready to take over the work of the Directorate on 
the conclusion of hostilities, and also for reasons shown below to assume some of its 
functions immediately, its organization must now be brought into line with the expan- 



144 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

sion and development of the work of the Directorate. The fact that the Governments 
of the Dominions have now appointed the High Commissioners to represent them on 
the Committee, and that the Government of India has in the same way appointed a 
representative, would alone render such reorganization desirable. 

4. The Committee, as originally constituted to care for the graves of British 
soldiers in France, was recognized as the authority through which these graves would 
after the War be maintained in perpetuity at the cost of the British Government (see 
paragraphs 1 and 3 in Foreign Office letter, Appendix I.). Beyond this the official 
status of the Committee has not been determined. It is clear that if it is to administer 
funds to which the Governments of the Dominions and India, as well as that of the 
United Kingdom will contribute, it cannot well be made dependent on any department 
of the Government of the Mother Country alone; on the other hand there is no depart- 
ment responsible to the Governments of all the different States of the Empire to which 
it could be attached. 

There would appear to be two courses by which a satisfactory solution of the 
problem thus raising might be reached. The first would be to submit the question to 
the forthcoming Imperial Conference with a view to the Governments represented 
therein undertaking to maintain a joint committee, financed partly by contributions 
from those Governments and partly by voluntary subscriptions, and reporting to the 
Imperial Conference whenever it met. The second would be to create a permanent 
statutory organization somewhat after the model of the Development Commission. 
If this second course were adopted, an Act of the Imperial Parliament would prob- 
ably be necessary to establish a Fund and to authorize gifts to that Fund. Similar 
Acts might have to be passed by the Dominion Parliaments. Commissioners would 
then be appointed bjy Royal Warrant. 

In either case the members of the Joint Committee or the Commissioners would 
be unpaid. A paid secretary would be required and, at first, three assistant secretaries, 
with the necesary staff. It might also be desirable to appoint a paid chairman or 
vice-chairman. 

As this Commission or Committee would be the development and continuation 
of a Branch "of the War Office, the Secretary of State for War would seem to be the 
right person to answer for it in Parliament so far as the United Kingdom is concerned. 
In that case the sums voted by Parliament, or grants in aid, would hp shown in the 
Vote of the War Office. This link with the War Office is desirable. For while it 
would not interfere with the right of the Secretary of the Commission to direct access 
to all Government Departments, it would properly mark the military character of the 
work and the responsibility of the War Office for what had been done during the War, 
and it would further permanently associate with the War Office a department on which 
it could call in the case of any future war. The Dominion Governments would also 
have to appoint a Minister to answer for the work of the Committee or Commission 
in their Parliaments. I am not in a position to suggest the appropriate Minister in 
these cases. 

The staff required at the outset by the secretary to complete the work of registra- 
tion and to organize the burial grounds would be gradually reduced, until it was only 
of such dimensions as were required to supervise the maintainance of the cemeteries 
and to administer such funds as were necessary for the ceremonial visits which would 
be paid periodically to the cemeteries abroad and by which the memory of the dead 
would be honoured and the common sacrifice of the Allies recalled. The services of 
one of the assistant secretaries, who would be in charge of the department dealing with 
the completion of registration, identification and records, might be dispensed with 
when that part of the work was terminated. 

5. Though the Committee has been hitherto for the most part dormant, it has 
held several meetings, at which all questions affecting its future control of the work 
have been submitted to it by the Directorate for decision. But the time has come 
when the process of merging- the Directorate into a Committee, reconstructed as 
suggested, might with advantage begin. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 145 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Not only are there certain portions of the work which have reached a stage at 
which they no longer fall necessarily under exclusively military control, and for which 
the office of the Directorate might now become responsible to the Imperial Commission, 
but certain functions, such as the study and preparation of a scheme for permanent 
memorials and the collection of funds for their erection, or at any rate the elabora- 
tion of future financial policy, should be exercised by the Commission without delay. 
The question of permanent memorials, whether of a collective or individual character, 
the erection of which is at present forbidden owing to military necessities, is so greatly 
agitating the public mind that there should be no more delay than is inevitable in 
satisfying public feeling on the question. Isolated appeals for funds in this connection 
from private individuals or dependent committees have already begun to appear in the 
newspapers. 

If the Government of the United Kingdom, of the Dominions and of India are 
of opinion that the moral contingencies involved in the inadequate treatment of the 
graves of those who have fallen demand at least as much attention as the material 
result of the War, they will undoubtedly consider that the matter ought to be discussed 
at the Imperial Conference which is about to meet, and a decision in regard to it 
arrived at. 

FABIAN WAKE, 

Brigadier- General, 
Director of Graves Registration and Inquiries. 
War Office, 

7th March, 1917. 



Appendix I. 
(110204/217/K.) Foreign Office, 

15th June, 1916. 

My Lord, — In my despatch No. 14, Consular, of the 26th of January, concerning 
the measures to be taken for the care and preservation of the graves of British officers 
and men who have fallen in France during the present War, I requested Your Excel- 
lency to inform the French Government that a British National Committee had been 
appointed to act as an Association within the meaning of the French law of the 29th 
of December, 1915, and to take charge of the British graves. 

The Government of the Republic have been good enough to nominate three French 
officers to serve on that Committee, and the names of these officers were duly reported 
in your despatches Nos. 35 and 42 of the 17th and 31st March. 

I have now received from the Army Council a letter in which they ask that the 
following communication may be made to the French Ministry of War : — 

1. " The Prince of Wales' National Committee for the Care of the Graves of 
British Soldiers " is the " Association regulierement constitute " in this country 
referred to in Clause 6 of the French law of 29th December, 1915. On the cessation 
of hostilities all requests relating to these graves addressed to the French authorities 
by individuals or societies in this country, will be dealt with by this Committee when 
referred to it by the French Ministry of War. 

2. During the continuance of hostilities the Director of Graves Registration and 
Inquiries, General Headquarters, British Expeditionary Force, as representative of the 
Adjutant General, is the sole intermediary between the British Army in the field and 
the French Military and Civil Authorities in all matters connected with the French 
law of 29th December, 1915, and all such requests as are mentioned in the preceding 
paragraph should during the War be referred to him. 

3. The British Government will, after the War, through the Prince of Wales' 
National Committee, undertake the maintenance in perpetuity of the cemeteries and 

42a— 10 



-146 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

graves of British soldiers in Trance under the provisions of Clause 6 of the French 
law of 29th December, 1915. 

4. The Army Council finds it difficult to express in adequate terms its appreciation 
of the noble and generous impulse which led the French nation to provide, at its own 
cost, permanent resting places for the British soldiers who have fallen on French soil. 
The British Army and French Chambers during the debates on the law, and by the 
statement that France desires " to treat as her own children those who cannot be 
buried in their native land." 

I shall be glad if Your Excellency will address a Note to Monsieur Briand in 
accordance with the request of the Army Council, and I should wish you at the same 
time to express on behalf of His Majesty's Government their deep sense of gratitude 
for the generous feelings by which the Government of the Bepublic have been 
prompted, and for the anxiety which they have shown to treat with every respect the 
remains of those who have perished fighting as Allies on the soil of France. 

I am, etc., 

A. LAW, 

For the Secretary of State. 
His Excellency the Lord Bertie, P.O., G.C.B., G.C.M.G. 

Appendix II. 
(14722/16.) Treasury Chambers, 

3rd June, 1916. 
Sir,— In reply to Mr. Cubitt's letter of the 1st instant (45/1/2, D.G.R. & I.), I 
am directed by the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty's Treasury to request you to 
express to the Army Council their lordships' concurrence in the setting up of the 
Prince of Wales's National Committee for the care of graves in France and Belgium 
as the " Association regulierement constitutee," for the purpose of Clause 6 of the 
French law of the 29th December 1915. My lords agree to the cost upkeep of the 
graves in France after the War being accepted as a charge on civil votes; and they 
note that the French Government will provide the land required for the cemeteries 
free of charge. 

I am, etc., 

T. L. HEATH. 
The Secretary, War Office. 

Ill 
i Draft Charter. 

Imperial War Graves Commission. 

(Original draft and first revise.*) 
[See discussion reported at pages 28-44 and 94-102.] 

GEORGE THE FIFTH, by the Grace of God of the CTnited Kingdom, of Great 
Britain and Ireland and of the British Dominions beyond the Seas King, Defender 
of the Faith, Emperor of India ; 

To all to whom these presents shall come greeting : 

Whereas it has been represented to Us by Our most dearly deloved son, Edward, 
Prince of Wales, Knight of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, that the establishment 
and organization of a permanent Imperial Body charged with the duty of caring for 

♦Note. — The original text, as circulated to members of the Imperial War Conference, is 
given in ordinary (roman) type, and the alterations agreed to at the meeting of the Conference 
on April 13 are shown in italic and obliterated type. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 147 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

the graves of officers and men of Our military and naval forces raised in all parts of 
Our Empire who have fallen, or may fall, in the present War, and have been, or may be, 
buried either in foreign countries or in Our dominions, would, by honouring and per- 
petuating the memory of their common sacrifice, tend to heep alive the ideals for the 
maintenance and defence of which they have laid down their lives, to strengthen the 
bonds of union between all classes and races in Our dominions, and to promote a feeling 
of common citizenship and of loyalty and devotion to Us and to the Empire of which 
they are subjects : 

And whereas the Government of the French Republic has made generous provision 
by law for the grant in perpetuity of land for the graves of all officers and men buried 
in France belonging to the forces of all foreign States fighting in alliance with the 
forces of the said Republic, and negotiations are now proceeding, or will hereafter be 
instituted, on Our behalf with the Governments of other foreign States for similar 
grants of land for the graves of officers and men of Our said forces who have been, 
or may be buried in the territory of such State s : Belgium, in the Gallipoli Peninsula, in 
Mesopotamia, in parts of Africa not within Our Dominions, or in any other foreign 
territory : 

And whereas the objects intended to be promoted by this Our charter have hitherto 
formed the care of Our Army Council and of a Committee appointed by the Lords 
Commissioners of Our Treasury, of which Our said dearly beloved son, the Prince of 
Wales, is the President : 

And whereas application has been made to Us by Our said dearly beloved son, the 
Prince of Wales, to incorporate himself and the persons from time to time holding 
the several offices hereinafter named, and all other persons who may become members 
of the said Body as hereinafter provided : 

NOW KNOW YE THAT WE, being desirous of promoting the establishment and 
organization of the said Body, have by Our royal prerogative and of Our especial 
grace, certain knowledge, and mere motion given and granted, and by this Our charter 
for Us, Our heirs and successors do hereby give and grant that — 

Our said most dearly beloved son, Edward, Prince of Wales, Knight of the Most 
Noble Order of the Garter: 
The persons for the time being holding the offices of — 

Our Principal Secretary of State for War; 

Our Principal 'Secretary of State for the Colonies; 

Our Principal Secretary of State for India; and 

First Commissioner of Our Office of Works and Public Buildings; 

Such five persons as may from time to time be respectively appointed for that 
purpose by — 

The Government of the Dominion of Canada; 

The Government of the C ommonwealth of Australia; 

The Government of the Dominion of New Zealand; 

The Government of the Union of South Africa; and 

The Government of Newfoundland. 

High Commissioner for the Dominion of Canada ; 

High Commission e r for tho Commonwoalth of Auotralia ; 

High Commissioner for tho Dominion of Now Zealand; 

High Commissioner for tho Union of South Africa; 

Such person ac may from timo to timo bo appointed for that purpogc by the Gov- 
ernment of Newfoundland; 

And all persons who may, pursuant to this Our charter, become members 
of the Corporation established by this Our charter shall be a Body Corporate by the 
name of " The Imperial War Graves Commission," with perpetual succession and a 

42a— 10* 



148 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

common seal, with power to break, alter, or renew the same at discretion, and with 
capacity to sue or be sued in their corporate name, and with the further authorities, 
powers, and privileges conferred and subject to the conditions imposed by this Our 
charter. 

And We do hereby accordingly will, ordain, give, grant, constitute, appoint, and 
declare as follows : — 

I. — Preliminary. 

In the construction of this Our charter the following words and expressions, 
unless there is something in the context inconsistent with such interpretation, shall 
have meanings hereinafter attached to them; that is to say, 

" The Commission " means the Corporation of the Imperial War Graves Com- 
mission established by this Our charter. 

" Fallen ". means died from wounds inflicted, accident occurring, or disease con- 
tracted, while on active service, whether on sea or land. 

" Person " includes a body of persons corporate or unincorporate. 

Words in the masculine gender include the feminine, and words in the singular 
number include the plural, and the plural number include the singular. 

II. — The President. 

1. The first President shall be Our dearly beloved son, Edward, Prince of Wales. 
In the event of a vacancy in the office of President, from whatever cause arising, ttuch 
vacancy shall he filled. On Lliu lubigiialiuii ui dtalh of the President the vaoanoy ohall 
be Med by the nomination of a successor under the Sign Manual of the Sovereign for 

the time being. . . 

2. The President shall preside at all meeting's of the Commission and of any 
Committee constituted in pursuance of the provisions of this Our charter at which 
he may be present. _ 

3. The President shall have power to summon meetings of the Commission at any 
time he may think fit so to do, in order to submit to the members thereof such matters 
of importance relating to the affairs of the Commission as he may deem requisite. 
Such meetings shall be summoned in such manner and by giving such notices as the 
President may think best calculated to advise the members of the Commission of the 
time and place of such meetings. 

III. — The Members of the Commission. 

The Members of the Commission shall consist of the following persons : — 

1. The President. 

2. The persons for the time being holding the offices hereinbefore mentioned and 
such persons person as may be appointed by the Governments of Canada, Australia, New 
Zealand, South Africa, and Government uf Newfoundland, as hereinbefore provided in 
this Our charter, all of whom shall be styled and are hereinafter referred to as Official 
( \r officio Members. 

3. Such other persons, not exceeding the number of six in all, as may from time 
to time be appointed Members of the Commission by Royal Warrant under the Sign 
Manual of the Sovereign for the time being. 

IV . — O RGANIZATION . 

1. (1) There shall be a Chairman of the Commission who, in the absence of the 
President, shall preside at all meetings thereof. 

(2) The Chairman shall, subject to the power hereinbefore conferred upon the 
President, and subject to such regulations as may be made by the Commission as here- 
inafter provided, summon all meetings of the Commission for the despatch of business. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE-, 1917 149 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

(3) The Chairman of the Commission shall be Our Principal Secretary of State 
for War. 

2. (1) There shall be a Vice-Chairman of the Commission who, in the absence 
or illness or other incapacity of the Chairman, shall have and exercise the powers and 
authorities of the Chairman. 

(2) The Vice-Chairman of the Commission shall be appointed by the Commission. 

3. (1) There shall be a Secretary to the 'Commission, and as many Assistant 
Secretaries, not exceeding three, as may be necessary for the administration of the 
affairs of the Commission. 

(2) The Secretary, shall bo appointed and Assistant Secretaries shall be appointed 
by the President. Tho Assistant Soorotarioo Ghall bo nppointodi 

(3) The Secretary and Assistant Secretaries shall not be members of the Com- 
mission, but the Secretary, or, in the event of his absence, illness, or other incapacity, 
one of the Assistant Secretaries, shall attend every meeting of the Commission and 
assist the 'Commission in the transaction of its business thereat. 

4. The Commission shall meet for the despatch of business, and shall from time 
to time make such regulations with respect to the summoning, notice place, manage- 
ment, and adjournment of such meetings and generally with respect to the transaction 
and management of business, as they think fit, subject to the following conditions : — 

(a) The first meeting of the Commission shall be held on such day after the 
date of this Our charter, and at such place, as may be determined by the 
President, and;, subject to the prpvisions of this Our charter, the proceed- 
ings at any such first meeting of the Commission shall be conducted in 
such manner as may be directed by the President. 

(b) The quorum- of the Commission shall consist of five members, or such other 
number as the President, with the concurrence of the Commission, may 
declare. 

(c) Every question shall be decided by a majority of votes of the members 
present and voting on that question.- 

(d) The names of the members present at a meeting shall be recorded, and, 
upon a requisition made by three or more members voting on that question 
the names of the members voting on that question shall be recorded. 

5. (1) If at any meeting neither the President nor the Chairman nor the Vice- 
Chairman is present at the time appointed for holding the same, the members present 
shall choose some one of their number to preside at such meeting. 

(2) In case of an equality of votes at any meeting the person presiding at such 
meeting shall have a second or casting vote. 

(3) If any Official e x-officio Member is unable to be present at any meeting he 
may appoint some fit person to represent him at such meeting, and such representative 
shall be entitled to exercise all the powers and privileges of such member save that he 
shall not be entitled or chosen to preside at such meeting. 

6. The Commission may from time to time delegate all or any of its powers to 
Committees, consisting of such number of its members as the Commission may think 
fit, and may appoint the quorum for any such Committee. Such Committees shall have 
power to make or adopt such rules for the guidance' and regulation of the affairs of 
the Commission specially delegated to them, and as to the holding of their meetings 
and the conduct of their business thereat, as they may from time to time see fit, sub- 
ject to the control of the Commission. 

1. (1) The Commission may from time to time appoint Advisory Committees, 
consisting of such persons as the Commission may think fit, to advise the Commission, 
either permanently or temporarily, on any special subject. 

(2) The members of such Advisory Committees shall hold their offices during the 
pleasure of the Commission. Such Advisory Committees shall have power to make or 



150 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

adopt such regulations as to the holding of their meetings and the conduct of their 
business thereat as they may from time to time see fit, but shall obey any directions 
given them by the Commission as to the exercise of their powers with regard to the 
subject referred to them. 

8. The Commission may from time to time constitute and maintain Agencies in 
Our Dominions beyond the Seas and in Our Protectorates and in foreign States 
charged with the duty of aiding the Commission to carry locally into effect any of the 
purposes of the Commission, and may delegate to any such Agency such of the powers, 
authorities, and privileges conferred on the Commission by this Our Charter as may 
be specified in the instrument constituting, such Agency. 

V. — Purposes and Powers of the Commission. 

1. The purposes of the Commission are the following: — 

(1) To acquire and hold land for the purpose of cemeteries in any territory in 
which any officers or men of Our military or naval forces raised in any part of Our 
Empire who shall have fallen in the present War may be buried. 

(2) To make fit provision for the burial of officers and men of Our said forces and 
the care of all graves in such cemeteries, to erect buildings and permanent' memorials 
therein, and generally to provide for the maintenance and upkeep of such cemeteries, 
buildings, and memorials. 

(3) To complete and maintain records and registers of all graves within such 
cemeteries. 

(4) To make fit provision for the care of all graves of officers or men in Our said 
forces who shall have fallen in the present War and may be buried elsewhere than in 
such cemeteries as aforesaid. 

2. The Commission is hereby authorized and empowered for the purposes afore- 
said from time to time — 

(1) To acquire by gift, purchase, or otherwise, and hold and dispose of personal 
or movable property of every kind in the United Kingdom or elsewhere. 

(2) To acquire by gift, purchase, or otherwise, and to hold (without licence in 
mortmain or other authority than this Our charter) lands in the United Kingdom, 
not exceeding acres for the purpose of any one cemetery, or acres 
for the purposes of such offices as may be required by the Commission, andl to acquire 
by the like means and to hold (subject to any local law for the time being in force) 
lands in any of Our Dominions beyond the Seas, and in any of Our Protectorates, and 
in any foreign State, for the purposes of such cemeteries or offices as aforesaid. 

(3) To provide for the burial in any such cemetery of any such officers or men 
of Our forces as aforesaid, and to exercise such powers of exhumation and reinter- 
ment as may appear to the Commission to be desirable, and as may be approved by 
the duly constituted local authority in the territory or territories concerned. 

(4) To erect and maintain buildings and permanent memorials on or in any such 
cemetery, to plant trees, shrubs, and flowers therein, to make and maintain all necessary 
fences, ways, and paths, and to do all such other things as may be necessary for the 
general maintenance and upkeep of such cemetery. 

(5) To permit or to prohibit the erection by any person other than the Commis- 
sion of permanent memorials in any such cemetery, or in any part of such cemetery, 
and, where such memorials are premitted, to receive and deal with applications by 
any persons to erect any such memorial, and to reject any application if the proposed 
memorial appears to the Commission (whose decision shall be final) to be unsuitable. 

(6) To provide for the registration of all graves in such cemeteries, and for the 
method of keeping all registers or branch registers used for this purpose, and for their 
inspection by the public, and their safe custody. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 151 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

(7) To make by-laws, as hereinafter provided, with regard to any such cemetery, 
subject in every case to the local law of the territory in which such cemetery is situated. 

(8) To provide for the' care of graves of any officers and men of Our said forces 
who may be buried elsewhere than in such cemeteries as aforesaid, for the placing of 
memorials on such graves, for their registration, and for the doing of all such other 
things as the Commission may think proper with regard to such graves, subject in every 
case to the local law of the territory in which any such grave may be situated. 

(9) To establish and maintain such offices as may be necessary for the work of 
the Commission,, whether in the United Kingdom or elsewhere, to build or take by 
gift, lease, purchase, or otherwise suitable buildings for such purposes, and to dispose 
from time to time of any land and buildings used for such offices when not required for 
such purposes. 

(10) To appoint and employ such officers and servants as may be necessary to 
carry out the work of the Commission, whether in such offices or in such cemeteries 
as aforesaid, and whether in the United Kingdom or elsewhere. 

(11) To enter into any contract, whether within the United Kingdom or else- 
where, with any of Our subjects, or with the subjects or citizens of any foreign State, 
with a view to the carrying into effect of any of the purposes or the exercise of any of 
the powers of the Commission. 

(12) To act as the "Association Regulierement Constitute" for the purpose of 
the French law of the 29th day of December, ! 1915, and to have similar authority in 
relation to any law or agreement of a like nature passed by or made with the Govern- 
ment of any other foreign State, and generally for the purposes of this Our charter 
to enter into such relations with the Government of any foreign State, or any Body 
authorized by such Government, as may be approved by Our Principal Secretary of 
State for Foreign Affairs. 

(13) To enter into such arrangements with the Government of any part of Our 
Dominions beyond the Seas, or of any of Our Protectorates, as may be desirable with 
a view to the carrying into effect of any of the purposes or the exercise of any of the 
powers of the Commission. 

(14) To do anything not expressly hereinbefore provided for which may be 
incidental or conducive to the carrying into effect of any of the purposes or the exer- 
cise of any of the powers of the Commission. 

3. The Co mm ission is hereby specially authorized and empowered from time to 
time to make by-laws (subject as aforesaid) with regard to the following matters : — - 

(1) The protection of public health and the maintenance of public decency and 
order in the cemeteries held for the purposes of the Commission. 

(2) The hours for opening and closing such cemeteries and the admission of the 
public thereto. 

(3) The conditions upon which any private memorials, permanent or temporary, 
may be placed upon graves in such cemeteries. 

(4) The duties and conduct of all officers and servants of the Commission in 
relation to such cemeteries. 

(5) The entry of records in all registers kept at such cemeteries, the inspection 
thereof by the public, and the safe custody of such vegisters. 

(6) Generally, all such matters as pertain to the work of the Commission in 
connection with the maintenance and upkeep of all cemeteries held for the purposes 
of the Commission. 

VI. — Financial. 

1. The Commission is hereby authorized and empowered — 

(1) To receive all funds which may be granted annually or otherwise by the 
Legislature of any part of Our Dominions or any of Our Protectorates in furtherance 
of the purposes of this Our Charter. 



152 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

(9,) Tn apppal for and rp^pivp pnhli'p. snWript.inng anrl Hmicitmng in ■fnvtl 1 m 7r n Q 
nf thp pnrpnQPg nf + nia miT- nnavtpv 

(2) (3) T o administer all funds which may be given, bequeathed, or granted as 
aforesaid, or received from and to receive and administer all other funds which may 
be given or bequeathed in furtherance of the said purposes or derived from any other 
source not hereinbefore mentioned, with power, subject to any such conditions as may 
be attached to any such grant, gift, or bequest, as aforesaid, to treat all such funds 
either as capital or income at its discretion. 

(3) (4) To establish an Endowment Fund, consisting of such part of its funds 
as shall from time to time be treated as capital. 

(4) .(5) To receive the income for the time being produced by the Endowment 
Eund, and to apply such income and all other the income of the Commission in carry- 
ing into effect the purposes of this Our charter. 

2. (1) The Endowment Fund established as aforesaid shall be vested in three 
Trustees, who shall be appointed, with the approval of the President, by the Commission 
under their common seal, and any vacancy in their number occasioned by death, 
resignation, or incapacity shall be filled in the like manner. 

(2) The Trustees may invest, and change the investments of, any moneys for the 
time being constituting the capital of the Endowment Fund in such manner, and in 
and for such securities of such a description as the trustees think expedient. 

VII. — General. 

1. The Commission may at any time, and from time to time, with the concurrence 
of the President, apply for and accept a Supplemental Charter, or an Act of Parlia- 
ment, if it appears to it that such Supplemental Charter or Act of Parliament is 
required for carrying into effect any of the purposes or powers of this Our charter. 

2. No act or proceeding of the Commission, or of a Committee established by the 
Commission, shall be questioned on account of any vacancy or vacancies in the Com- 
mission or any such Committee. 

3. No defect in the qualification or appointment of any person acting as a member 
of the Commission or of a Committee established by the Commission shall be deemed 
to vitiate any proceedings of the Commission or of such Committee in which he has 
taken part, in cases where the majority of members parties to such proceedings are 
duly entitled to act. 

4. (1) Any instrument which, if made by a private person, would be required 
to be under seal, shall be under the sea! of the Commission and signed by the proper 
officer of the Commission. Any notice issued by or on behalf of the Commission shall 
be deemed to be duly executed if signed by the proper officer; but, subject as aforesaid, 
any appointment made by the Commission, and any contract, order, or other document 
made by or proceeding from the Commission shall be deemed to be duly executed 
either if sealed with the seal of the Commission and signed by the proper officer, or if 
signed by two or more members of the Commission authorized to sign them by a 
resolution of the Commission and be countersigned by the proper officer. 

(2) The proper officer of the Commission shall be any officer authorized by the 
Commission to sign such notices and documents as he is required to sign as aforesaid. 

VIII. — Annual Report and 'Statement of Accounts. 

1. The accounts of the Commission shall be audited annually by an auditor or 
auditors, who shall be chartered accountants, and who shall be named by the Governor 
of the Bank of England for the time being. 

2. The Commission shall, once in every year at least, prepare a General Report of 
their proceedings for the year preceding, and attach thereto' a duly certified Statement 
of Accounts and of the finances of the Commission. 

3. The President shall, on the completion of every such annual General Report and 
Statement of Accounts forthwith submit the same to Us, and it shall be the duty of the 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 153 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Secretary to transmit copies thereof for the information of Governments of such parts 
of Our dominions as are represented on the Commission or have made grants as 
aforesaid in furtherance of the purposes of this Our charter. Evory mombor of tho 
Commiooion ohall) on application, bo entitled to roooivo a copy of cuch Boport and . 
Statomonti ■ 

In witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made patent. Witness 
Ourself, at Westminster, the day of in the 

seventh year of Our reign. 

By Warrant under King's Sign Manual. 

IV. 

Draft Charter. 
Imperial War Graves Commission. 

(Second revise.*) 

[See discussion reported at pages 94-102.] 

GEOBGE THE FIFTH, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom of Great 
Britain and Ireland and of the British Dominions beyond the Seas King, Defender 
of the Faith, Emperor of India; 

To all to whom these presents shall come greeting: 

Whereas it has been represented to Us by Our most dearly beloved son, Edward, 
Prince of Wales, Knight of the Most Noble Order of the Garter, that the establish- 
ment and organization of a permanent Imperial Body charged with the duty of caring 
for the graves of officers and men of Our military and naval forces raised in all parts 
of Our Empire who have fallen, or may fall, in the present War, and have been, or 
may be, buried either in foreign countries or in Our dominions, would, by honouring 
and perpetuating the memory of their common sacrifice, tend to keep alive the ideals 
for the maintenance and defence of which they have laid down their lives, to strengthen 
the bonds of union between all classes and races in Our dominions, and to promote a 
feeling of common citizenship and of loyalty and devotion to Us and to the Empire 
of which they are subjects; 

And whereas the Government of the French Bepublic has made generous provi- 
sion by law for the grant in perpetuity of land for the graves of all officers and men 
buried in France belonging to the forces of all foreign States fighting in alliance with 
the forces of the said Bepublic, and negotiations are now proceeding, or will hereafter 
be instituted, on Our behalf with the Governments of other foreign States for similar 
grants of land for the graves of officers and men of Our said forces who have been, or 
may be, buried in Belgium, in the Gallipoli Peninsula, in Mesopotamia, in parts of 
Africa not within Our dominions, or in any other foreign territory. 

And whereas the objects intended to be promoted by this Our charter have hitherto 
formed the care of Our Army Council and of a Committee appointed by the Lords 
Commissioners of Our Treasury, of which Our said dearly beloved son, the Prince of 
Wales, is the President ; 

And whereas application has been made to us by Our said dearly beloved son, the 
Prince of Wales, to incorporate himself and the persons from time to time holding 
the several offices hereinafter named, and all other persons who may become members 
of the said Body as hereinafter provided; 

* Note. — This document is the draft charter as finally revised in accordance with the wisi* s 
expressed by the Imperial War Conference at its meeting on 23rd April. 



154 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1317 

NOW KNOW YE THAT WE, being desirous of promoting the establishment 
and organization of the said Body, have by Our royal prerogative and of Our especial 
grace, certain knowledge, and mere motion given and granted, and by this Our charter 
for Us, Our heirs and successors do hereby give and grant that — 

Our said most dearly beloved son, Edward, Prince of Wales, Knight of the Most 
Noble Order of the Garter : 

The persons for the time being holding the offices of — 

Our Principal Secretary of State for War; 

Our Principal Secretary of State for the Colonies; 

Our Principal Secretary of State for India ; and 

First Commissioner of Our Office of Works and Public Buildings ; 

Such five persons as may from time to time be respectively appointed for that 
purpose by — ■ 

The Government of the Dominion of Canada ; 
The Government of the Commonwealth of Australia; 
The Government of the Dominion of New Zealand; 
The Government of the Union of South Africa ; and 
The Government of Newfoundland. 

And all other persons who may, pursuant to this Our charter, become members of 
the Corporation established by this Our charter shall be a Body Corporate by the name 
of " The Imperial War Graves Commission," with perpetual succession and a common 
seal, with power to break, alter, or renew the same at discretion, and with capacity to 
sue or be sued in their corporate name, and with the further authorities, powers, and 
privileges conferred and subject to the conditions imposed by this Our charter. 

And We do hereby accordingly will, ordain, give," grant, constitute, appoint, and 
declare as follows : — 

I. — Preliminary. 

In the construction of this Our charter the following words and expressions, unless 
there is something in the context inconsistent with such interpretation, shall have 
meanings hereinafter attached to them; that is to say, 

" The Commission" means the Corporation of the Imperial War Graves Commis- 
sion established by this Our charter. 

" Fallen " means died from wounds inflicted, accident occurring, or disease con- 
tracted, while on active service, whether on sea or land. 

" Person " includes a body of persons corporate or unincorporate. 

Words in the masculine gender include the feminine, and words in the singular 
number include the plural, and in the plural number include the singular. 



II. — The President. 

1. The first President shall be Our dearly beloved son, Edward, Prince of Wales. 
In the event of a vacancy in the office of President, from whatever cause arising, such 
vacancy shall be filled by the nomination of a successor under the Sign Manual of the 
Sovereign for the time being. 

2. The President shall preside at all meetings of the Commission and of any Com- 
mittee constituted in pursuance of the provisions of this Our charter at which he may 
be present. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 t55 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

3. The President shall have power to summon meetings of the Commission at any 
time he may think fit so to do, in order to submit to the members thereof such matters 
of importance relating to the affairs of the Commission as he may deem requisite. 
Such meetings shall be summoned in such manner and by giving such notices as the 
President may think best calculated to advise the members of the Commission of the 
time and place of such meetings. 

III. — The Members of the Commission. 

The Members of the Commission shall consist of the following persons : — 

1. The President. 

2. The persons for the time being holding the offices hereinbefore mentioned and 
such persons as may be appointed by the Governments of Canada, Australia, New 
Zealand, South Africa, and Newfoundland, as hereinbefore provided in this Our 
charter, all of whom shall be styled and are hereinafter referred to as Official Members. 

3. Such other persons, not exceeding the number of eight in all, as may from 
time to time be appointed Members of the Commission by Royal Warrant under the 
Sign Manual of the Sovereign for the time being. 

IV. — Organization. 

1. (1) There shall be a Chairman of the Commission who, in the absence of the 
President, shall preside at all meetings thereof. 

(2) The Chairman shall, subject to the power hereinbefore conferred upon the 
President, and subject to such regulations as may be made by the Commission as 
hereinafter provided, summon all meetings of the Commission for the despatch of 
business. 

(3) The Chairman of the Commission shall be Our Principal Secretary of State 
for War. " 

2. (1) There shall be a Vice-Chairman of the Commission who, in the absence 
or illness or other incapacity of the Chairman, shall have and exercise the powers and 
authorities of the Chairman. 

(2) The Vice Chairman of the Commission shall be appointed by the Commission. 

3. (1) There shall be a Secretary to the Commission, and as many Assistant 
Secretaries, not exceeding three, as may be necessary for the administration of the 
affairs of the Commission. 

(2) The Secretary and Assistant Secretaries shall be appointed by the President. 

(3) The Secretary and Assistant Secretaries shall not be members of the 
Commission, but the Secretary, or, in the event of his absence, illness, or other 
incapacity, one of the Assistant Secretaries, shall attend every meeting of the Com- 
mission and assist the Commission in the transaction of its business thereat. 

4. The Commission shall meet for the despatch of business, and shall from time 
to time make such regulations with respect to the summoning, notice, place, manage- 
ment, and adjournment of such meetings and generally with respect to the transaction 
and management of business, as they think fit, subject to the following conditions: — 

(a) The first meeting of the Commission shall be held on such day after the 
date of this Our charter, and at such place, as may be determined by the 
President, and, subject to the provisions, of this Our charter, the proceedings 
at any such first meeting of the Commission shall be conducted in such 
manner as may be directed by the President. 
(6) The quorum of the Commission shall consist of five members, or such other 
number as the President, with the concurrence of the Commission, may 
declare. 



156 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

(c) Every question shall be decided by a majority of votes of the members 
present and voting on that question. 

(d) The names of the members present at a meeting shall be recorded, and, 
upon a requisition made by three or more members voting on a question, 
the names of the members voting on that question shall be recorded. 

5. (1) If at any meeting neither the President nor the Chairman nor the Vice- 
Chairman is present at the time appointed for holding the same, the members present 
shall choose some one of their number to preside at such meeting. 

(2) In case of an equality of votes at any meeting the person presiding at such 
meeting shall have a second or casting vote. 

(3) If any Official Member is unable to be present at any meeting he may appoint 
some fit person to represent him at such meeting, and such representative shall be 
entitled to exercise all the powers and privileges of such member save that he shall not 
be entitled or chosen to preside at such meeting. 

6. ^ The Commission may from time to time delegate all or any of its powers to 
Committees, consisting of such number of its members as the Commission may think 
fit, and may appoint the quorum for any such Committee. Such Committees shall 
have power to make or adopt such rules for the guidance and regulation of the affairs 
of the Commission specially delegated to them, and as to the holding of their meet- 
ings and the conduct of their business thereat, as they may from time to time see fit, 
subject to the control of the Commission. 

7 (1) The Commission may from time to time appoint Advisory Committees, con- 
sisting of such persons as the Commission may think fit, to advise the Commission, 
either 'permanently or temporarily, on any special subject. 

(2) The members of such Advisory Committees shall hold their offices during the 
pleasure of the Commission. Such Advisory Committees shall have power to make 
or adopt such regulations as to the holding of their meetings and the conduct of their 
business thereat as they may from time to time see fit, but shall obey any directions 
given them by the Commission as to the exercise of their powers with regard to the 
subject referred to them. 

8. The Commission may from time to time constitute and maintain Agencies in 
Our Dominions beyond the Seas and in Our Protectorates and in foreign States 
charged with the duty of aiding the Commission to carry locally into effect any of 
the purposes of the Commission, and may delegate to any such Agency such of the 
powers, authorities, and privileges referred on the Commission by this Our charter 
as may be specified in the instrument constituting such Agency. 

V. — Purposes am) Powers op the Commission. 

1. The purposes of the Commission are the following: — 

(1) To acquire and hold land for the purpose of cemeteries in any territory in 
which any officers or men of Our military or naval forces raised in any part of Our 
Empire who shall have fallen in the present War may be buried. 

(2) To make fit provision for the burial of officers and men of Our said forces and 
the care of all graves in such cemeteries, to erect buildings and permanent memorials 
therein, and generally to provide for the maintenance and upkeep of' such cemeteries, 
buildings, and memorials. 

(3) To complete and maintain records and registers of all graves within such 
cemeteries. 

(4) To make fit provision for the care of all graves of officers or men of Our said 
forces who shall- have fallen in the present War and may be buried elsewhere than in 
such cemeteries as aforesaid. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 11)17 157 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

(5) To acquire and hold land for the purpose of providing or erecting permanent 
memorials elsewhere than in such cemeteries as aforesaid in honour of any officers 
or men of Our said forces who shall have fallen in the present War. 

2. The Commission is hereby authorized and empowered for the purposes afore- 
said from time to time — 

(1) To acquire by gift, purchase, or otherwise, and hold and dispose of personal 
or movable property of every kind in the United Kingdom or elsewhere. 

(2) To acquire, by gift, purchase, or otherwise, and to hold (without licence in 
mortmain or other authority than this Our charter) lands in the United Kingdom, not 
exceeding two hundred acres for the purposes of such cemeteries as aforesaid, or five 
acres for the purposes of such offices as may be required by the Commission, and to 
acquire by the like means and to hold (subject to any local law for the time being in 
force) lands in any of Our Dominions beyond the Seas, and in any of Our Protec- 
torates, and in any foreign State, for the purposes of such cemeteries or offices as 
aforesaid. 

(3) To provide for the burial in any such cemetery of any such officers or men 
of Our forces as aforesaid, and to exercise such powers of exhumation and reinter- 
ment as may appear to the Commission to be desirable, and as may be approved by 
the duly constituted local authority in the territory or territories concerned. 

(4) To erect and maintain buildings and permanent memorials on or in any such 
cemetery, to plant trees, shrubs, and flowers therein, to make and maintain all 
necessary fences 1 , ways, and paths, and to do all such other things as may be necessary 
for the general maintenance and upkeep of such cemetery. 

(5) To permit or to prohibit the erection by any person other than the Commis- 
sion of permanent memorials in any such cemetery, or in any part of such cemetery, 
and, where such memorials are permitted, to receive and deal with applications by any 
persons to erect any such memorial, and to reject any application if the proposed 
memorial appears to the Commission (whose decision shall be final) to be unsuitable. 

(6) To provide for the registration of all graves in such cemeteries, and for the 
method of keeping all registers or branch registers used for this purpose, and for their 
inspection by the public, and their safe custody. 

(7) To make by-laws, as hereinafter provided, with regard to any such cemetery, 
subject in every case to the local law of the territory in which such cemetery is situated. 

(8) To provide for the care of graves of any officers and men of Our said forces 
who may be buried elsewhere than in such cemeteries as aforesaid, for the placing of 
memorials on such graves, for their registration, and for the doing of all such other 
things as the Commission may think proper with regard to such graves, subject in 
every case to the local law of the territory in which any such grave may be situated. 

(9) To take such steps as may be necessary under the local law of the territory 
concerned to enable the Commission to hold any land, other than any such cemetery 
as aforesaid, for the purpose of providing or erecting any permanent memorial in 
honour of officers or men of Our said forces who shall have fallen in the present War. 

(10) To establish and maintain such offices as may be necessary for the work of 
the Commission, whether in the United Kingdom or elsewhere, to build or take by 
gift, lease, purchase, or otherwise suitable buildings for such purposes, and to dispose 
from time to time of any land and buildings used for such offices when not required 
for such purposes. 

(11) To appoint and employ such officers and servants as may be necessary to 
carry out the work of the Commission, whether in such offices or in such cemeteries 
as aforesaid, and whether in the United Kingdom or elsewhere. 

(12) To enter into any contract, whether within the United Kingdom or else- 
where, with any of Our subjects, or with the subjects or citizens of any foreign State, 
with a view to the carrying into effect of any of the purposes or the exercise of any of 
the powers of the Commission. 



158 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1911 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

(13) To act as the "Association Regulierement Constitute" for the purpose of 
the French law of the 29th day of December, 1915, and ip have similar authority in 
relation to any law or agreement of a like nature passed by or made with the Govern- 
ment of any other foreign State, and generally for the purposes of this Our charter to 
enter into such relations with the Government of any foreign State, or any Body 
authorized by such Government, as may be approved by Our Principal Secretary of 
State for Foreign Affairs. 

(14) To enter into such arrangements with the Government of .any part of Our 
Dominions beyond the Seas, or of any of Our Protectorates, as may be desirable with 
a view to the carrying into effect of any of the purposes or the exercise of any of the 
powers of the Commission. 

(15) To do anything not expressly hereinbefore provided for which may be 
incidental or conducive to the carrying into effect of any of the purposes or the exercise 
of any of the powers of the Commission. 

3. The Commission is hereby specially authorized and empowered from time to 
time to make by-laws (subject as aforesaid) with regard to the following matters : — 

(1) The protection of public health and the maintenance of public decency and 
order in the cemeteries held for the purposes of the Commission. 

(2) The hours for opening and closing such cemeteries and the admission of the 
public thereto. 

(3) The conditions upon which any private memorials, permanent or temporary, 
may be placed upon graves in such cemeteries. 

(4) The duties and conduct of all officers and servants of the Commission in 
relation to such cemeteries. 

(5) The entry of records in all registers kept at such cemeteries, the inspection 
thereof by the public, and the safe custody of such registers. 

(6) Generally, all such matters as appertain to the work of the Commission in 
connection with the maintenance and upkeep of all cemeteries held for the purposes 
of the Commission. 

4. In the construction of this Part of Our charter the word " cemetery " may or 
shall include a Hindu or other non-Christian cremation ground, and any action which 
may be taken in regard to a cemetery under the provisions of this Our charter may. be 
taken in regard to such a cremation ground in so far as may be consistent with Hindu 
or such other religious customs as may be applicable in the case of any such cremation 
ground. 

VI. — Financial. 

1. The Commission is hereby authorized and empowered — 

(1) To receive all funds which may be granted annually or otherwise by the 
Legislature of any part of Our Dominions or any of Our Protectorates in furtherance 
of the purposes of this Our charter. 

(2) To administer all funds which may be granted as aforesaid, and to receive 
and administer all other funds which may be given or bequeathed in furtherance of the 
said purposes or derived from any other source not hereinbefore mentioned, with power, 
subject to any such conditions as may be attached to any such grant, gift, or bequest, 
as aforesaid, to treat all such funds either as capital or income at its discretion. 

(3) To establish an Endowment Fund, consisting of such part of its funds as 
shall from time to time be treated as capital. 

(4) To receive the income for the time being produced by the Endowment Fund, 
and to apply such income and all other the income of the Commission in carrying into 
effect the purposes of this Our charter. 

2. (1) The Endowment Fund established as aforesaid shall be vested in three 
Trustees, who shall be appointed, with the approval of the President, by the Com- 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 ' 159 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

mission under their common seal, and any vacancy in their number occasioned by 
death, resignation, or incapacity shall be filled in the like manner. 

(2) The trustees may invest, and change the investments of, any moneys for the 
time being constituting the capital of the Endowment Fund in such manner, and in 
and for such securities of such a description as the Trustees think expedient. 

VII. — General. 

1. The Commission may at any time, and from time to time, with the con- 
currence of the President, apply for and accept a Supplemental Charter, or an Act of 
Parliament, if it appears to it that such Supplemental Charter or Act of Parliament is 
required for carrying into effect any of the purposes or powers of this Our charter. 

,2<. No act or proceeding of the Commission, or of a Committee established by the 
Commission, shall be questioned on account of any vacancy or vacancies in the Com- 
mission or any such Committee. 

3. No defect in the qualification or appointment of any person acting as a member 
of the 'Commission or of a Committee established by the Commission shall be deemed 
to vitiate any proceedings of the Commission or of such Committee in which he has 
taken part, in cases where the majority of members parties to such proceedings are 
duly entitled to act. 

4. (1) Any instrument which, if made by a private person, would be required to 
be under seal, shall be under the seal of the Commission and signed by the proper officer 
of the Commission. Any notice issued by or on behalf of the Commission shall be 
deemed to be duly executed if signed by the proper officer; but, subject as aforesaid, 
any appointment made by the Commission, and any contract, order, or other document 
made by or proceeding from the Commission, shall be deemed to be duly executed 
either if sealed with the seal of the Commission and signed by the proper officer, or if 
signed by two or more members of the Commission authorized to sign them by a resolu- 
tion of the Commission and countersigned by the proper officer. 

(2) The proper officer of the Commission shall be any officer authorized by the 
Commission to sign such notices and documents as he is required to sign as aforesaid. 



VIII. — Annual Report and Statement of Accounts. 

1. The amounts of the Commission shall be audited annually by an auditor or 
auditors, who shall be chartered accountants, and who shall be named by the Governor 
of the Bank of England for the time being. 

2. The Commission shall, once in every year at least, prepare a General Report 
of their proceedings for the year preceding, and attach thereto a duly certified State- 
ment of Accounts and of the finances of the Commission. 

3. The President shall, on the completion of every such annual General Eeport 
and Statement of Accounts forthwith submit the same to Us, and it shall be the duty of 
the Secretary to transmit copies thereof for the information of the Governments of such 
parts of Our Dominions as are represented on the Commission or have made grants 
as aforesaid in furtherance of the purposes of this Our charter. 

In witness whereof We have caused these Our Letters to be made patent. 

Witness Our self, at Westminster, the day of in the 

seventh year of Our reign. 

By Warrant under the King's Sign Manual. 



160 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 



Despatch from His Majesty's Ambassador at Paris to the French Minister for 

Foreign Affairs. 

[See page 46.] 

Monsieur le President, British Embassy, Paris, 30th April, 1917. 

By a note dated the 17th of June last I had the honour to convey to the Govern- 
ment of the Kepublic an expression of the deep gratitude of His Majesty's Govern- 
ment for the action of the French Government in providing at its own cost permanent 
resting places for British soldiers who have fallen on French soil. 

Under instructions from His Majesty's Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, 
I have the honour to inform Your Excellency that the Imperial War Conference, 
after consideration of a minute by the Prince of Wales in which His Boyal High- 
ness refers in grateful terms to the generosity shown by the French nation in this 
matter, has placed on record, in a resolution on the subject of the future care of 
soldiers' graves, its very deep appreciation of the generous action of the French 
Government in setting apart in perpetuity the land in France where British soldiers 
are buried. 

I have the honour to be, with the highest consideration, 

Monsieur le President, 
Your Excellency's most obedient humble servant. 

His Excellency BERTIE OF THAME. 

Monsieur Alexandre Ribot, 
President of the Council, 

Minister for Foreign Affairs. 



VI. 
Nationality and Naturalization. 

(Memorandum prepared in the Home Office.) 
[See discussion reported on pages 70-78.] 

Changes in the Law or Practice. 

A distinction must be drawn between those changes which will require amend- 
ment, by legislation, of the British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act, 1914, and 
those which can be effected simply by an alteration of administrative practice. 

Legislative Changes. 

Legislative changes should, it as suggested, be made only with the assent of all 
members of the Empire and by legislative methods similar to those by which the Act 
of 1914 was carried. Separate legislation by any part of the Empire modifying the 
provisions of that Act is to be deprecated. 

Of the various matters relating to nationality and naturalization which have 
from time to time been discussed in the Press or elsewhere since the outbreak of the 
War, the following suggested changes which would need legislation are dealt with in 
this memorandum : — 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 161 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

(A) The introduction of a power to revoke naturalization for any other reason 
than false representation or fraud. (See Section 7 of the Act of 1914 and Appen- 
dix I.) 

(B) Certain minor amendments of the Act of J914 which experience has shown 
to be necessary. (See Appendix II.) 

Administrative Action. 

On the other hand, there are certain matters on which changes could be made 
administratively without any amendment of the existing Act. Such administrative 
action could, of course, be taken independently in any part of His Majesty's domin- 
ions, but, in view of the importance of some at any rate of the changes in question,.it 
would be highly desirable that the practice of all parts of the Empire should in this 
respect be uniform. 

The principal question involved is the refusal to grant certificates of natural- 
ization to subjects of all or any of the Enemy Powers during some period after the 
termination of the War, and the measures to be taken to meet any^ attempt by 
German subjects, if and whenever it may be thought proper to grant them natural- 
ization, to avail themselves of the provision of the Delbruck law, by which in certain 
eases a German acquiring a foreign nationality is permitted to retain his own. (See 
(Appendix III.) 

Home Office, "Whitehall, 
March, 1917. 

Appendix I. 

Revocation of Naturalization. 
At the present time the only power in our law to revoke a certificate of natural- 
ization is that conferred by Section 7 of the British Nationality and Status of Aliens 
Act, 1914, which provides — 'Where it appears to the Secretary of State that a certi- 
ficate of naturalization granted by him has been obtained by false representations or 
fraud, the Secretary of State may by order revoke the certificate, and the order of 
revocation shall have effect from such date as the Secretary of State may direct." 

Before 1914 there was in our law no power to revoke a certificate once granted. 
In this respect our law was similar to the laws of all civilized countries, in none of 
which, so far as can be ascertained, was there any provision for revocation by a Gov- 
ernment of naturalization once granted. The French are, however, passing, or have 
already passed, legislation providing for the revocation by judicial process of cer- 
tificates of naturalization granted to persons of enemy origin who have preserved their 
former nationality, and they have revoked by administrative action, under a war 
statute, 94 certificates out of 758 granted since the 1st January, 1913, to persons for- 
merly subjects of the Enemy Powers. 

A revocation of nationality is a serious step, and should be carried into effect 
only for grave reasons and after inquiry and report by a committee containing some 
person of judicial experience, and not by merely administrative action. A draft of a 
Bill to amend the British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act on these lines is 
annexed. 

Two practical difficulties in connection with revocation should be noticed — (1) 
The status of the wife and minor children, if any, of a person whose certificate is 
revoked; and (2) the question as to the treatment to be given after revocation to the 
person affected. , 

As to (1), the draft Bill proposes that the Secretary of State should deal with 
each case as may be thought best in the circumstances, and he would doubtless usually 

42a— 11 



162 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

act on the recommendation of the Inquiry Committee. Unless the Secretary of State 
orders otherwise the wife's nationality will remain unaffected, but she might have an 
optional power to make a declaration of alienage. 

As to (2), the treatment to be given to persons whose certificates are revoked will 
be determined by the legislation as to aliens in force in the part of the Empire con- 
cerned, but it will be remembered that such a person does not, in all probability, retain 
or recover any other nationality, and the more undesirable his character the less prac- 
ticable becomes his expulsion from His Majesty's dominions, inasmuch as he will not 
be a national of any State which is bound to receive him, and no State which has a 
power to reject undesirables will be open to him. The very great majority of persons 
of German origin naturalized here have lost their German nationality either, under 
the old German law, by prolonged absence from Germany, or by formal discharge. 

It may be added that, while it is proper and desirable to give effect to the general 
popular feeling that persons of enemy origin should not be allowed to retain a citizen- 
ship to which they have proved themselves disloyal, it is not to be anticipated that 
the number of revocations that will be necessary will be large. 

It is not possible to procure accurate figures as to the number of naturalized 
British subjects of enemy origin who, being in Germany or elsewhere abroad at the 
outbreak of war, have actually adhered to the enemy, but the number of cases reported 
to the Home Office is twenty-five only; in fact a considerable number of such British 
subjects have been interned by the Germans at Ruhleben. On the other hand, of 
approximately 6,000* naturalized male British subjects of German, Austrian, or Hun- 
garian origin in the United Kingdom, at the outbreak of the War, thirty-five have 
hitherto been interned as suspect under Article 14 B of the Defence of the Realm 
Regulations. The number of natural-born British subjects so interned is not greatly 
inferior to that of the naturalized. 

Home Office, 

March 1917. 



Draft of a Bill to amend the British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act, 1914. 

Be it enacted by the King's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and 
consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons in this present Parliament 
assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows : — 

1. The following subsections shall be inserted in the British Nationality and 
Status of Aliens Act, 1914 (in this Act called' the principal Act), after Subsection (1) 
of Section 7 (which relates to the revocation of certificates! of naturalization). 

(2) A Secretary of State may also by order revoke a certificate of naturalization 
in any case in which he is satisfied after such inquiry as hereinafter mentioned that 
the person to whom the certificate was granted either 

(a) Has shown himself by overt act or speech to be disloyal to His Majesty, 
or 

(6) Has within five years of the date of the grant of his certificate of naturali- 
zation been sentenced to not less than twelve months' imprisonment or to 
a term of penal servitude, or 

(c) Was not at the date of the grant of his certificate of naturalization of 
good character, or 

(d) Has since the date of the grant of his certificate of naturalization been 
for a period of not less than seven years ordinarily resident out of His 



* This figure assumes, what is probably true, that the number remained about the same 
from 1911, the date of the census, to 1914. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 163 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

Majesty's dominions otherwise than as a representative of a British 
subject, firm, or company carrying on business, or an institution estab- 
lished in His Majesty's dominions, or in the service of the Crown, and 
has not maintained substantial connection with his Majesty's dominions; 

and that (in any case) the continuance of his certificate is not conducive to the pnblic 

good. 

(3) An inquiry under this section shall be held by a committee constituted by the 
Secretary of State, presided over by a person who holds, or has held high judicial 
office, and shall be conducted in such manner as the Secretary of State may prescribe. 
The committee shall have power to administer oaths to witnesses or to take evidence 
by affidavit, and any, party to such inquiry may sue out a writ of subpoena ad 
testificandum or a writ of subpoena duces tecum. Any such inquiry may relate to the 
revocation of a certificate of naturalization alleged to have been obtained by false 
representations or fraud as well as to the revocation of a certificate of naturalization 
under this section for any other reason. 

(4) When a person to whom a certificate of naturalization has been granted in 
some other part of His Majesty's dominions is resident in the United Kingdom the 
certificate may be revoked under this section by a Secretary of State with the con- 
currence of the Government of that part of His Majesty's dominions in which the 
certificate was granted. 

(5) (i) Notwithstanding anything contained in this Act, when a certificate of 
naturalization is revoked a Secretary of State may by order declare that the wife of 
the person whose certificate is revoked and any minor children of that person whose 
names were included in the certificate, or who have acquired British nationality 
pursuant to the provisions of Section 10 (5) of the Naturalization Act, 1870, shall 
cease to be British subjects, and such persons shall thereupon become aliens. 

(ii) Save as in this section provided, the nationality of the wife and minor 
children of a person whose certificate is revoked shall not be affected by the revocation, 
and they shall remain British subjects. 

Provided that it shall be lawful for any such wife within six months after the 
date of the order of revocation to make a declaration of alienage, and on making that 
declaration she and any minor children of her husband and herself, whose names were 
included in the certificate, or who have acquired British nationality pursuant to the 
provisions of Section 10 (5) of the Naturalization Act, 1870, shall cease to be British 
subjects and shall become aliens. 

2. (1) For the purpose of 'Section 2 of the principal Act a period spent in the 
service of the Crown may be reckoned as residence in the United Kingdom. 

(2) (i) In Subsection (1) (b) of Section 1 of the principal Act the words "or 
became a British subject by reason of any annexation of territory" shall be inserted, 
and be deemed always to have been inserted, after the words "had been granted." 

(ii) In Subsection (1) of Section 27 of the principal Act the expression " British 
subject" shall include, and be deemed to have always included any person who 
by reason of any annexation of territory has become a subject of His Majesty. 

(3) In the proviso to Subsection (1) of Section 8 of the principal Act the words 
"and any proposal to revoke or to concur in the revocation of any certificate" shall be 
inserted after the words "to be granted." 

(4) The following subsection shall be, and be deemed always to have been, substi- 
tuted for Subsection 2 of Section 27 of the principal Act: — 

"Where in pursuance of this Act the name of a child is included in a 
certificate of naturalization granted to his parent, or where in pursuance of 
any Act repealed by this Act any child has been deemed to be a naturalized 
British subject by reason of residence with his parent, such child shall for the 
purposes of this Act be deemed to be a person to whom a certificate of naturali- 
zation has been granted." 
42a— 11^ 



164 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

3. (1) This Act may be cited as the British Nationality and Status of Aliens 
(Amendment) Act, 1917, and shall be construed as one with the British Nationality 
and Status of Aliens Act, 1914, and that Act and this Act shall be cited together as 
the British Nationality and Status of Aliens Acts, 1914 and 1917. 

(2) Copies of the principal Act printed after the passing of this Act, under the 
authority of His Majesty's Stationery Office, may be printed so as to show the principal 
Act as amended by this Act. 

Home Office, 

March, 1917. 

Appendix II. 
Minor Amendments of the British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act, 1914. 

Two years' experience has shown that certain minor amendments, largely of a 
drafting character, in the Act of 1914 are desirable, and if it is decided to amend the 
Act at all, as by giving a further power to revoke certificates, advantage might be taken 
of the opportunity to remedy these slight defects. 

The Imperial 'Conference will probably not wish to be burdened with the details. 

The amendments proposed and embodied in the draft Bill are as follows : — 

(1) Section 2 should be amended so as to allow time spent in the service of the 
Crown to.be reckoned as equivalent to residence in British dominions. At present 
many aliens have been serving the Crown in France and elsewhere, and their service 
ought fairly to count with their residence to make up their qualification; this is 
specially urgent in reference to the condition as to residence in the United Kingdom 
for twelve months immediately preceding application. The existing rule has prevented 
the Home Secretary from naturalizing several desirable applicants. 

(2) The definition of "British subject" in Section 27 (1) needs amendment so as 
to cover the case of a person who acquires British nationality by annexation. Possibly 
a similar amendment should be made in Section 1 (1) (b). 

(3) An amendment of the proviso to Subsection (1) of Section 8 appears to be 
desirable, in order to make it clear that any proposal to revoke or to concur in the 
revocation of a certificate under the provisions in Clause 1 of, the draft Bill must, in 
the case of a British Possession other than British India or a Self-governing Dominion, 
be submitted by the Governor to the Secretary of State for his approval. 

(4) Section 27 (2) needs amendment so as to include the case of a person who 
becomes a British subject under the provisions of Section 10 of the Naturalization 
Act, 1870, by residence with his parents in the United Kingdom. 

Home Office, 
Whitehall, 

March, 1917. 

Appendix III. 

Befusal of Certificates of Naturalization to Subjects of the Enemy Powers 
during some period after the termination of the war, and special measures to 
meet the situation created by the delbruck law. 

1. These questions have been considered by the Aliens Sub-Committee of 
the Beconstruction Committee. As to the grant' of certificates of naturalization 
to Germans, their recommendation (with which the Home Office agrees) is to the 
effect that "the practice which has been adopted in the Home Office since the out- 
break of war of refusing naturalization to persons of German nationality might 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 165 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

properly be continued (without any amendment of the law) for a period which 
might be fixed as five years after the return of peace. The Secretary of State would, 
however, retain his statutory power to grant certificates in a few exceptional 
cases, the most numerous of which would be those of widows of British origin who 
had married Germans, but which would also include cases such as those of men 
Tvho, or whose sons, had voluntarily enlisted in the British forces. After the 
expiration of that period of five years, the whole matter should be reconsidered in 
the light of current events. It might then be found desirable to establish some 
such rule of administration as that German subjects should not be naturalized in 
this country unless they had been absent from Germany for some considerable 
period, say, twenty years, or such other measures, whether legislative or adminis- 
trative, could be taken as the situation might appear to require. 

2. It would certainly be convenient if the practice as to the grant of certi- 
ficates to Germans could be made uniform, at any rate, in its general lines, through- 
out the Empire, though in individual cases each authority must be unfettered in 
its discretion, and it will doubtless be found that exceptions may be made in certain 
cases especially of opponents of, or refugees from, the Prussian system. For this 
uniformity, as already explained, administrative action on agreed lines is sufficient; 
legislation is not required. 

3. The question of the grant of naturalization to subjects of Austria- 
Hungary, Turkey, and Bulgaria is of less importance, and can hardly be settled 
ly the application of any general rule. All the States concerned, and especially 
Turkey and Austria-Hungary, include subject races the members of which have 
a special claim on our generosity; there appears to be no reason to suggest that 
uny uniform rule should be laid down for the Empire applicable to the case of 
subjects of these States. 

4. If the uniform administrative policy suggested as to the grant of certi- 
ficates of naturalization to Germans be adopted, the question of any measures to 
be taken to meet the situation created . by the Delbruck law has little immediate 
ir-jportance. 

The observations of the Aliens Sub-Committee of the Reconstruction 
Committee and their conclusions (with which the Home Office agrees) may, how- 
ever, be submitted for the information of the Imperial Conference. They are as 
f ollows : — 

"The German Nationality Law of 1913 (the Delbruck law) makes the acquisi- 
tion of a foreign nationality one of the causes of the loss of German nationality, 
but provides at the same time that, if the person naturalized abroad has before 
naturalization applied for and received the written permission of the competent 
authorities of his home State to retain his nationality, then his German nationality 
is not lost. The law also provides that a former German, even if he has not 
returned to Germany, may be granted direct Imperial nationality. 

"In our view it would be impracticable at the present time to enact that no 
person is to be naturalized in the British Empire who retains foreign nationality. 
The effect of such an enactment would be to prohibit the naturalization of subjects 
of Russia, Turkey, and of some other States, and would not in itself prevent the 
naturalization of Germans. It is true that a new law might be so drafted as to 
prohibit the naturalization of a subject of any State whose statute law permitted 
him to obtain authority to preserve his original nationality at the same time that 
he acquired a new nationality, and a Bill relpenfly introduced bjy tihe French 

Government into the Senate actually proposes to amend the French Code 

in these terms. But if the exclusion of Germans is to be made statutory, it would 
be simpler to do so by an enactment in which they were expressly named rather 
than by a provision which makes their exclusion contingent upon the continuance 
of the Delbruck law in its present form. 



166 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

" If, however, the object desired is only to exclude from British nationality 
in the British Empire such Germans as are found to retain German nationality, 
this could be effected by a modification of our administrative practice without any 
fresh enactment. If every German applicant for naturalization is compelled, to 
include in his memorial a statement that he has not applied for, or received, and 
does not intend to apply for, the permission of the authorities of his home Staie 
to retain his nationality, then a certificate granted to any such person who does 
in fact obtain that written permission will have been obtained by false representa- 
tion, and can at any time be revoked under Section 7 of the Act of 1914. 

"The German nationality, as already explained, is retained under the Delbruck 
law only if before the naturalization abroad the necessary permission to retain 
has been obtained from the German authorities, and so if an applicant states, when 
presenting his memorial, that his intention is not to apply for the permission, and 
in the brief interval before the grant of the certificate does in fact so apply, it 
will be easy to conclude that his intention was not in fact what he stated it to 
be, and that the certificate has been obtained by false representation. 

"The chance that any person so naturalized would afterwards receive a direct 
grant of Imperial German nationality while residing in the British Empire 
appears to us to be remote. That one European State should attempt to exercise 
sovereignty in the territory of another by a grant of nationality to a person not 
in its own service would be contrary to international usage, and the attempt is 
the less likely to be made inasmuch as it would bring no advantage to the natural- 
izing Power. Such a grant of nationality would not affect the status of the 
grantee in the British Empire. If it were made openly it would attract at once 
the attention of the authorities and the case could be dealt with, either under 
Section 7 of the Act of 1914 (if the circumstances were such as to show that a 
false representation had been made on the grant of the certificate), or under the 
measures for revocation proposed in a later portion of this report. On the other 
hand, if the proceeding were secret, it is hard to conceive what possible advantage 
could be gained by it; the position of a secret agent would be in no way improved 
by a surreptitious action, which, if discovered, would at once draw down suspicion. 

"If, on the other hand, a person of German origin naturalized in the British 
Empire returns to Germany and is there renaturalized as a German, he thereby loses 
his acquired British nationality, and no case of double nationality arises." 

The Sub-Committee summarized their conclusion on these points as follows : — 

rt (l) The question of double nationality, so far as it affects German applicants 
for naturalization and the general question of the naturalization of Germans, can 
bo dealt with effectually for the immediate future by administrative action without 
any amendment of the existing law. 

"(2) In order to avoid double nationality by naturalized persons of German 
origin, German applicants should, when their cases are dealt with, be required 
to make an express declaration to the effect that they have not obtained, and do 
not intend to apply for permission to retain their original nationality under the 
Delbruck law. 

"(3) The present practice of not admitting Germans should be continued for 
a period of five years after the conclusion of peace, and after that period the whole 
matter should be reconsidered." 

Home Office., 

March, 1917. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 167 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

I 

Income Tax — United Kingdom and Dominions. 

(Memorandum by the Board of Inland Revenue.) 
[See discussion reported at pages 78-88' and 103-116.] 

1. The existence within, the boundaries of the British Empire of several dis- 
tinct income taxes imposed by the various Legislatures involves problems which 
have been discussed at previous Colonial and Imperial Conferences.* 

2. In the United Kingdom — where an income tax has been made the mainstay 
of the revenue — the system adopted from the outset has been based (broadly speak- 
ing) upon the twofold principle of charging (a) income enjoyed by residents in the 
United Kingdom wherever it arises, and (b) income arising in the United Kingdom. 

The Dominions, on the other hand, very generally confine the scope of their 
income taxes to incomes arising within their own boundaries. 

* 3. It follows that persons resident in the United Kingdom** who derive part of 
their income from a Dominion may have to pay income tax on' that part of their 
income to the Exchequers both of the Dominion and of the United Kingdom. 

4. The only alternative is for one or other (or each) of the Exchequers con- 
cerned, to face a loss of revenue. 

On what principle, then, should the claims of the respective Exchequers be 
adjusted. Is the main test to be residence of recipient or source of income? Or is 
each Exchequer, whilst retaining its own tests, to sacrifice an arbitrary proportion 
of the tax which would normally be collected? 

5. It will be evident that a permanent settlement of the problem presupposes 
careful examination into principle — failing which it would be quite impossible to 
determine what form . of compromise is least inconsistent with (a) the efficiency of 
an income tax and (&) the role attributed to an income tax in the fiscal system of 
a country. 

6. In the case of the United Kingdom income tax, such an examination into 
principle was on the point of being undertaken by a Committee of Inquiry into the 
incidence of the Income Tax.f War, however, broke out, and the promised inves- 
tigation had necessarily to be postponed until the end of the War. 

7. The very circumstance which made it impossible to proceed at once with a 
scientific inquiry into the income tax, tended in itself to accentuate the various 
problems for the settlement of which such a preliminary examination was essential. 

This accentuation was felt by the late Government to justify some action in 
regard to the subject matter of the present note; and accordingly it was decided 
that — "as a temporary measure, and without prejudice to future consideration of 



♦Colonial Conference, 1907. — Minutes of proceeding's of the Colonial Conference, 1907- 
[Cd. 3523], pages 183-190 and 196-198. Papers laid before the Colonial Conference, 1907 [Cd. 
3524], pag-es 161-167. 

Imperial Conference. — Correspondence relating to the Imperial Conference, 1911 [Cd. 
5513], pages 7 and 13 (List of subjects for discussion transmitted by the Governor of New 
Zealand and Governor General of South Africa). Precis of the proceedings [Cd. 5741], pages 
68 and 69. Minutes of proceedings [Cd. 5745], page 187 and pages 358-364. Papers laid before 
the Conference [Cd. 5746-1], page 266. 

** The expression "persons resident in the United Kingdom" — in addition to its ordinary 
significance — includes a company whose seat of management is in the United Kingdom and 
whose operations are controlled here. The whole business profits of such a company are charge- 
able with United Kingdom income tax, notwithstanding that the transactions from which those 
profits are immediately derived may be carried on outside the United Kingdom. 

t See statements in the House of Commons by Mr. Asquith on 25th June, 1914 ("Parlia- 
mentary Debates," Vol. LXIII, column 2053), and by Mr. Lloyd George on 21st July, 1914 
{"Parliamentary Debates," Vol. LXV, columns 3S6, 387, 388, 3S9). 



168 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

the relative claims of the Exchequers of the United Kingdom and of the Domin- 
ions "J — the increase of Is. 6d. in the £ proposed for 1916-17 in the rate of United 
Kingdom income tax (i.e., from 3s. 6d. in the £ to 5s. in the £) should not apply in 
so far as a person pays income tax on the same income both here and in a Dominion.§ 
8. The arrangement was necessarily devoid of principle, and was admittedly 
intended as a mere stop-gap measure. But throughout the Budget debates of 1916 1| 
the Government proceeded on the view that, although examination into principle — 
the indispensable preliminary to any permanent settlement — could not be under- 
taken during the continuation of the War, the matter should receive urgent atten- 
tion on the restoration of peace. 

Somerset House, 
2nd April, 1917. 



VIII. 

Letter from the Director-General of the National War Museum. 

[See page 123.] 

National War Museum, 

His Majesty's Office of Works, Storey's Gate, 

Westminster, S.W.I, 12th April, 1917. 

Sir, — The enclosed leaflet is being widely circulated throughout the Navy and the* 
Army. I am instructed by the National War Museum to ask that the attention of 
the Governors of the Dominions and Colonies in all parts of the British Empire may 
be called to it, and that it may be sent to them with a covering letter pointing out 
as follows s — 

1. That the National War Museum will be very incomplete if it does not 
illustrate both by documents and material exhibits the war activities of 
all parts of the British Empire as well as of British subjects resident in 
foreign countries. 

2. That enemy propaganda has been a very widespread phenomenon, and 
that the evidences of it from all parts of the world will form an important 
contribution towards the material to be handled by future historians. 

3. That files of important or characteristic journals covering the period of 
the War will be a valuable contribution to the museum library, as well as 
all books, pamphlets, and other publications dealing with the War, or' 
with economic or other conditions arising out of it. 

4. That illustrative photographic material will be very acceptable. 

5. That a branch of the museum is to be devoted to the work of women for 
the War. 

t Financial statement (1916-17), House of Commons Paper No. 50, 4th April, 1916. 

§ See section 43 of the Finance Act, 1916, which provides that, where a person who has paid- 
United Kingdom income tax at a rate exceeding 3s. 6d. in the £ has also paid any Colonial 
income tax in respect of the same income, he shall be repaid — in whole or in part — the United 
Kingdom income tax in excess of 3s. 6d. in the £. Thus, if the normal rate of United Kingdom 
income tax is 5s. in the £ and the Colonial rate be 2s. 6d., he ultimately pays 3s. 6d. here ; with 
a Colonial rate of Is. 6d., again he pays 3s. 6d. here ; if the Colonial rate be 6d., he pays 4s. 6d. 
here. 

|| See "Parliamentary Debates," Vol. LXXXI, column 1057; Vol. LXXXI1I, columns 405,. 
425, 426. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 169 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

6. That the formation of local committees in as many centres as possible to 
co-operate with the museum authorities may be a good way to further this 
patriotic movement. 

I am, etc., 



MARTIN CONWAY, 

Director-General, National War Museum. 



To the Secretary of State 
for the Colonies, 
Downing- Street. 



ENCLOSURE IN VIII. 

National War Museum. . 

The War Cabinet has accepted the proposal of Sir- Alfred Mond (Eirst Com- 
missioner of Works), to establish a museum in London commemorative of the War. 
The needful preliminary steps having been taken and a nucleus organization set up, 
it is necessary to obtain the co-operation of every member of the fighting forces of 
both services at the earliest possible moment. Only by such co-operation can the 
desired result be attained. His Majesty the King has been pleased to express his sym- 
pathy with the proposed war museum, and he trusts that it may be made thoroughly 
representative of the achievements of all units engaged in the War, both in the com- 
batant and non-combatant services. 

The museum, beside in the first instance illustrating as fully as possible the 
operations of the Navy all over the world and of the Army on all the fronts, will be so 
arranged as to set forth the activities and accomplishments of the several units, and 
special attention will be paid to the record of ships and regiments. There will be 
sections devoted to the forces of each of the Dominions. There will also be a section 
illustrative of women's work. 

By private and public initiative similar enterprises have been set on foot, in 
Allied and in Enemy Countries. It is not desirable that the historian of the future 
should have to go abroad to pursue his studies in German museums through lack of 
material provided at home. The length of time that has already passed since the 
beginning of the War and the consequent transfer into private hands of countless 
memorials of priceless value for the future, render the generous co-operation of such 
owners essential. This is specially true in respect of documents of all kinds. Life 
on shipboard and in the trenches produces a transient literature and art of its own. 
The museum should possess all the ship and trench magazines, journals, poems, pop- 
ular songs, characteristic private letters, writings, sketches, caricatures, maps, and 
so forth. The Admiralty, the War Office, and the Ministry of Munitions will deposit 
in the museum the large mass of official exhibits, but such an assemblage will be a 
dead accumulation unless it is vitalized by contributions expressive of the action, 
the experiences, the valour, and the endurance of individuals. The brave men who 
have performed heroic deeds, and too often laid down their lives for their country 
in the performance, must be commemorated by their portraits. The photographic 
record of persons and places must be as complete as possible. 

Much that would have been of great value to the national collection is already 
destroyed; more is in imminent peril of destruction. A general co-operation is 
needed to preserve everything that can be saved. Models of particular parts of the 
front are made to serve needs of the day and cast aside when they have performed 
their purpose. Every one of them is wanted. Men employ their enforced leisure in 
making all kinds of memorials; gifts of such representative souvenirs will be valued. 
The light side of things should be illustrated as well as the frightful tragedy of war. 



170 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 191? 

When peace returns and men are back at home, the years will pass and memory 
of the great days and adventures through which they lived will grow dim. It is the 
purpose of the museum to be a place which they can visit with their comrades, their 
friends, or their children, and there revive the past and behold again the great guns 
ajiid other weapons with which they fought, the uniforms they wore, pictures anld 
models of the ships and trenches and dug-outs in which weary hours were spent, or 
of positions which they carried and ground every yard of it memorable to them. They 
will then be glad to recall also the occupations of their hours of leisure. They will 
be able to look up the likenesses of the men they knew, some of whom, it may be, fell 
fighting beside them. The best possible result will be desired by all. Let all 
co-operate heartily and it will be attained. 

MARTIN CONWAY, 
Director-General of the National War Museum. 
Temporary Offices, 

His Majesty's Office of Works, 
Storey's Gate, 
Westminster, S.W.I. 



IX. 

Note on Emigration from India to the Self- Governing Dominions. 

[See discussion reported on pages 126-129.] 

1. This question was discussed at the Imperial Conference of 1911, when the 
Secretary of State for India (the Marquess of Crewe) put in a memorandum, subse- 
quently published [Cd. 5476—1 of 1911]. The only legislation of importance since 
then was the South Africa Immigration Act of 1913. 

2. While none of the Dominions has mentioned natives of India as prohibited 
immigrants, the several Dominions (except Newfoundland*) have effectually guarded 
themselves against an influx of Asiatics. Australia and New Zealand impose an 
educational test upon immigrants, while Canada and South Africa have taken power 
to exclude immigrants belonging to any race deemed unsuitable as residents. South 
Africa has issued instructions to immigration officers that Asiatics are " unsuitable " ; 
Canada has not. In practice Canada excludes Indians by insisting that all immi- 
grants shall have come by. through ticket on continuous journey from their country 
of origin, a provision hitherto effective because there has been no direct steamer 
service. In addition, Canada insists that each Asiatic immigrant must possess £40 
($200) (unless he belongs to a country as to which special statutory regulations are 
in force, or with which there is a special agreement). From an Imperial point of 
view, the flaw in the Canadian system is that it puts Japanese in a far better position 
than British Indian subjects. Japan has secured this by agreeing to limit emigration / 
of the labouring class to Canada to four hundred a year. 

3. South Africa has, by an administrative order, absolutely shut the door to fresh 
immigration from India, with the important exceptions that one lawful wife (with 
her minor children) of any domiciled Indian who has not already a wife in South 
Africa has the right of entry, and that the Union Government has promised to admit 
by special permit as many as twelve educated Indians each year. 

4. In Australia and New Zealand, Indians who do not know the English language 
are unable to fulfil the educational requirements of the laws. In Australia, however, 
an Indian who knows English perfectly can be excluded for want of knowledge of some 

* Which has differentiated against Chinese only. 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 171 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

other European language. (This provision is applicable to immigrants of any race 
except the British.) 

5. Thus all the Dominions are secured against an influx of uneducated Asiatics. 

6. In each Dominion the Government has power to admit individual immigrants 
(who would otherwise be excluded) by permit. In Canada, apart from special permits, 
tourists, students, teachers, and certain other educated persons, do not come within 
the scope of the immigration laws. In the other Dominions they do, and their admis- 
sion depends on the decision of the Minister in each individual case. 

7. Each Dominion allows the return of Indians who have acquired domicile, 
subject to the necessary precautions to prevent personation or forgery. 

8. South Africa (with a large permanent Indian population) differs from the 
other Dominions in allowing (subject to strict precautions) any Indian who has 
acquired the right of residence to bring his wife and his young children from India 
to take up permanent residence. In Australia and New Zealand the absence of any 
such provision does not appear to have caused resentment on the part of Indians, 
but much political capital has been made out of the matter as regards Canada. Here 
there are hardly any Indian women (the men having entered, unaccompanied by 
women, before the promulgation of the Orders in Council which in effect prevent any 
fresh Indian immigration). The Dominion Government does not insist upon the 
possession of $200 by the wives of domiciled Indians, but the " continuous journey " 
provision in practice makes it impossible for the women to come. Much has been 
made in India of this grievance, t'nough it is very improbable that in practice more 
than a dozen or so Sikhs of the labouring classes would wish to bring over their wives, 
especially since the Indian community in British Columbia has become so much 
smaller. The efforts made to do so were probably inspired by political agitators, who 
wished to, and* did, produce cases which aroused sympathy. But the average Sikh, 
ready to travel all over the world to make money, does not in the least wish to be 
hampered by a helpless wife. Eesident Japanese may introduce not only their 
families but domestic servants, so that the differentiation against British Indians is 
very marked. 

9. As regards the temporary visits of Indians of good position, the various* 
Dominion laws allow persons with good credentials to enter (in Canada, as " tourists," 
and elsewhere by special permits). Although educated Indians chafe at the necessity 
of suing for permission to enter the Dominions, while all British subjects can enter 
India freely, it is difficult to make any positive suggestion. Sympathetic action on 
the part of immigration officers 'might go far to mollify the sense of grievance 
undoubtedly felt by educated Indians. The grievance might be more effectually 
remedied if each Dominion Government were to empower an agent or agents of its 
own, resident in India, to issue permits to visit the Dominion, to Indians with good ' 
credentials, for specified purposes. Whether such an arrangement would be practic- 
able is a matter for consideration. 

10. The- Indians settled in the Dominions make complaints from time to time 
on various points, such as the absence of political equality with full citizens. Such 
matters are entirely within the discretion of the several Governments, and need not 
be discussed. But it is of importance to note that the biased administration of 
municipal regulations as to the grant of trading licenses may in practice inflict more 
injury on individual resident Indians than do some statutes against which Indians 
have protested. 

11. It is quite recognized that some Indians resident in the Dominions have 
put forward claims in the direction of requests for the Parliamentary franchise 
and for the recognition of non-Christian marriage systems which no Dominion 
Government could grant without danger to the character of its own institutions, 
and have thus weakened their requests for remedy of more material grievances. 
The argument for allowing resident Indians who possess the necessary educational 



172 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

and property qualifications a vote in municipal elections — where this does not 
already exist — is based not only on the fact that they are taxed for municipal 
purposes, but on the obvious consideration that their safeguards for equitable treat- 
ment from municipal officials in such matters as the issue of licenses would be 
enhanced by their possession of votes. 

12. As regards the Parliamentary franchise; it has been argued in Natal in 
the past that Indians, as coming from a country that did not enjoy representative 
institutions, were not fitted for a Parliamentary vote. But the extension of the 
representative character of Legislative Councils in India has certainly modified the 
force of this argument, at least in its application to Indian merchants. The fran- 
chise, as regards the status of non-European races, differs considerably in the several 
provinces of the Union of South Africa, and in this, the only one of the Self-govern- 
ing Dominions in which an Indian vote would have much political influence, the 
question of the admission of Indians to the Parliamentary franchise could not be 
entirely dissociated from very difficult questions of the political status of African 
natives. It does not appear to have been noticed that while any one from the 
Dominions is free to enter and do business in British India, and is eligible -for 
appointment to the Indian Services, no non-official Canadian or Australian, for 
instance, who takes up his residence in India acquires any voice in the government 
of the country, except in so far as he may happen, on account of his business, to 
become one of the electors for the representation of the special interests (such as 
Chambers of Commerce, or tea planters in Assam) in the Legislative Councils. 

13 It is common ground that Indians of any class who have been allowed to 
acquire residential rights in the Dominions should be accorded equitable treatment. 
It is not yet admitted except by South Africa that Indian men who have acquired 
residential rights should be allowed to introduce women of their own race. The 
objection, no doubt, is that Canada, Australia, and New Zealand consider it unde- 
sirable to have a permanent Asiatic ' domiciled community such as exists in South 
Africa, though Canada, in fact, has allowed the foundation of a permanent 
Japanese colony. On the other hand, the constant charges of sexual immorality 
made against Indians, and the fears expressed as to undesirable miscegenation, 
show the unnatural position produced where Indians who have been allowed to 
acquire a domicile are not allowed to lead a normal family life. 

14. The embargo against unlimited immigration of Indians- of the labouring 
classes is understood in India, though not popular. But the provisions which 5> while 
not preventing the visits of educated Indians, put upon them the onus of proving to 
Dominion officials that they do not belong to prohibited classes, are undoubtedly a 
cause of much friction, and have helped to create in Indian political circles a very 
strong feeling of hostility to the Dominions. While the Government of India have 
always felt great difficulty about any arrangements under which they would be called 
upon to decide as between -individual educated Indians who should be allowed to go 
to any Dominion, it is recognized that by making an arrangement of this kind Japan 
has been able to come to a settlement with Canada which puts Japanese in a 
jrivileged position. 

15. To attain a settlement of these grievances it is necessary to recognize, in 
the first place, that they are in a great measure matters of settlement. ^ Indians, in 
their outlook upon the Empire, are at present powerfully swayed by two ideas. 'They 
a*-e proud of the fact that they are British jubjects and their country an integral 
portion of the Empire. They wish to claim .their Imperial privileges, and they do 
not understand why, on the ground of race, they are unfairly excluded from large 
tracts of the Empire, and worse treated in some matters than Asiatics who do not 
belong to the Empire, while (until the passing of the new United States immigra- 
tion law) they have not met with unfavourable differential treatment in the terri- 
tories of foreign Powers. They are at the same time proud of their Indian nation- 



IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 173 

SESSIONAL PAPER No. 42a 

ahty, of their ancient civilization, and of the great intellectual traditions which 
they have inherited. They are deeply moved by treatment which imputes to them 
ignorance or implies denial of these titles to respect. They have made sacrifices for 
the Empire; they have proved their loyalty, their courage, and their fortitude; and 
they ask that this should be recognized. Thus sentiment and imagination enter 
largely into the controversy. If the Dominions would make concessions which 
would meet feelings of this order, they would probably find that India would not be 
unreasonable on material points. The unrestricted opening to India enterprise of 
any territory acquired from the enemy in East Africa would, it is believed, remove 
some of the bitterness which this controversy has engendered in the minds of Indian 
publicists and politicians by the proof it would give that in the disposal of terri- 
tories accruing to the Empire as a result of the War the needs of the Indian peoples 
have not been overlooked. 

16. With these principals in mind, it is suggested that the basis of an agree- 
ment might be sought on the following lines : — 

(1) As regards Indians already permanently settled in the Dominions they 
should be allowed to bring in wives (subject to the rule of monogamy) and 
minor -children, and in other respects should not be less privileged than Japan- 
ese settled immigrants. 

(2) Future admissions of Indians for labour or settlement should, if 
possible, be regulated on lines similar to, and not less favourable than, those 
governing the admission of any other Asiatic race. 

(3) If this is not possible, there might be reciprocal treatment in India and 
each Dominion of immigration for purposes of labour or permanent settlement. 
If a Dominion is determined to exclude these two classes of immigration from 
India, 'India should be free to do the same as regards that Dominion. It would 
be clearly recognized that the exclusion in either case was not motived by 
prejudices of race, but was the outcome of different economic conditions. 

(4) Along with such exclusion reciprocal arrangements would be made for 
granting full facilities for' the admission of tourists, students, and the like, 
and for business visits entailing temporary residence, so long as this residence 
was not for labour purposes or for permanent settlement. 

India Office, 

22nd March, 1917. 



Reply from His Majesty The King to the Address from the Imperial war 

Conference. 

(See pages 130-131). 

I thank you for your loyal and dutiful Address, which I profoundly appreciate. 
Since my Accession I have realized the sincerity of the loyal affection to my Throne 
and Person shared by all classes throughout the Empire, and it has afforded me special 
gratification to receive to-day a testimony to such feelings from you as the Repre- 
sentatives of my Dominions beyond the seas and of India now gathered together in 
the heart of the Empire. 

You have met me at an historic moment in our Empire's story. I am confident 
ibat the result of your deliberations will be of great and lasting advantage, not 
only in helping to bring the present War to a victorious conclusion, but to ensure 



174 IMPERIAL WAR CONFERENCE, 1917 

7 GEORGE V, A. 1917 

that when peace is restored we may" be found prepared for the tasks which then 
await us in the organization of the resources of the Empire with a view of render- 
ing it more self-sustaining, and in strengthening the ties that knit together all parts 
of my dominions'. 

It has afforded me the utmost satisfaction that Representatives of India have 
been Members of your Conference with equal rights to take part in its deliberations. 
This meeting round a common board, and the consequent personal intercourse, will 
result in the increasing growth of a spirit of larger sympathy and of mutual 
understanding between India and the Overseas Dominions. Your present gathering 
is a giant stride on the road of progress and Imperial development, and I feel sure' 
that this advance will be steadily continued. 

I deeply regret thfit, owing to unavoidable circumstances, it has not been 
possible for the Commonwealth of Australia to be represented at the present 
Conference. But that great Dominion stands second to none in determination to 
do all in its power to assist in the tremendous conflict in which the Empire is 
engaged. I trust that, when the next Conference meets, it may be attended by 
representatives from all over the Dominions and India. 

In the midst of the present terrible struggle the magnificent contributions in 
men, munitions, and money made by all parts of my Empire have been a source 
of the greatest pride and satisfaction to me. Vast armies raised in the Dominions 
\have taken or are taking, the field side by side with those of the United Kingdom 
to fight the common foe in the cause of justice and of those free institutions which 
are the very keystone of my Empire. It is fitting also that I should here specially 
refer to the munificent gifts of money made towards the expenses of the War by 
the Government, Princes, and Peoples of India. May this comradeship in the field, 
this community of suffering and sacrifice, draw together still closer than ever all parts 
of my Possessions, establishing fresh bonds of union that will endure to our mutual 
advantage long after the War and its horrors have passed away. 

The Queen and I recall with the liveliest and happiest recollections the visits 
which we have been privileged to pay to, the different parts of my dominions beyond 
the seas, thereby gaining personal knowledge of the various countries and peoples, of 
their resources and difficulties, and -of all their varying problems and interests. 

We do not forget the warm-hearted and loyal welcome given to us on those 
occasions, and it is with feelings of affectionate regard that I ever follow the welfare of 
my subjects beyond the seas. I look forward to the day when some of our children 
will, in their turn, have an opportunity of acquiring similar priceless experience by 
such visits. 

I rejoice in the prospect of better means of communication which will more 
effectively link up the various portions of my Empire, and I trust that the days to come 
will see an ever-increasing exchange of visits and personal intercourse between the 
Mother Country and the Overseas Dominions. For do not sympathy and common 
brotherhood help to form the surest foundations on which a State can rest? 

The value of Empire lies not in its greatness and strength alone, but in the 
several contributions that each of its diverse parts, with their varying circumstances 
and conditions, makes to the one general stock of knowledge and progress. 

I thank you for coming here personally to present your Address to me. May God 
bless and protect you all, and grant you safe return hume at the conclusion of your 
labours. 



